Would people get mad...

Well, this is sorta of one of those "dumb questions" but I was just wondering on your opinions.

Would people get mad if I (or/along with others) starting writing to include the saxophone in a full orchestra?

The reason I ask is because yesterday the Louisville Orchestra Woodwind Quintet came to our school, and afterwards we had a Q&A session, and our tenor player (and a great friend of mine) asked the simple question.. "I'm a saxophonist... what do I do?" obviously saying, he can't play in an orchestra.

This got me thinking, the only reason they don't have saxophones in an orchestra is because they weren't around until 60-ish years ago, so all the greats obviously couldn't write for them.

However, that was then, and this is now.

So, why couldn't we start including saxophones as part of the orchestra?

Right now the only reason I can think of is because nobody writes for them.

So why can't us composers start including them in an orchestra when we write for them?

I don't see why not, what about you all?

There are orchestral pieces that have saxophones and there's nothing wrong with it.

You just can't expect every orchestra to have saxophones, but neither can you expect every orchestra to have alto flutes or two tubas. Just be aware of this fact, but feel free to write for them.

The saxophone has been around since the 1840's. There are many reasons why it's never been a regular member of the orchestra, chief of which is that the orchestra is a highly conservative and tradition-bound ensemble that doesn't react kindly to change. To this day, there are conservatories where you cannot major on saxophone. The prejudice exists to this day.

It doesn't help that Mr. Sax was also by all accounts, an donkey, who made enemies freely... and who made sure that his invention saw little use outside of France. If you look back to early orchestral music that includes the saxophone, nearly all of it is from French or French-speaking composers.

Feel free to write for saxophone, but keep in mind that it may slightly limit your ability to get your pieces played by others (not nearly as bad as, say... including a Heckelphone or Wagner Tuba, but slightly, nonetheless). In many orchestras, the second or third clarinetist is a specialist on the saxophone and will be engaged to play the part if it exists.

The Eb Alto Saxophone is the most commonly used in the orchestra, then the Bb Soprano, then the Bb Tenor, and then the Eb Baritone as a distant fourth. The saxophones should be placed in the score either below the clarinets or between the bassoons and horns (either is common, though personally I tend to place them below the clarinets).

The Saxophone is no a rare, difficult to find Instrument, It does not have to be any problem of that kind...(if somebody argues you that)

If you want to use the Sax because you have already in your mind a passage for it, or the work will have some proper style for the sax, use it.(no matter what other tell you)

If you want to use it just to intensify the woodwinds ...well that depends of the kind of music you're going to write, and the way you plan to use it ...You really need it ?...

I don't see why a people would get mad just because you call for sax in your work. (well, sometimes people gets mad and you don't even know why...)

but I do tell you this, if you write for the sax, make sure to specify what kind of "tone" you want in you piece. Remember the Sax may produce sound from very "smooth classical", to bery "bright engy" tone. If you don't mention anything , just the name "Saxophone" and you were imagine your work with the "smooth classical" sound, and, in the perfomance of the work you hear the edgy raw, it could spoil you piece... ask your Sax player friend for details but... the difference between the smooth classical and the bright engy is in the Mouthpiece, (the Reed too, and the techenique, but the Mouthpiece is essenc

I am offended. How DARE YOU EVEN THINK ABOUT ADDING ANOTHER WIND!!!!

Strings ftw!!!!

That is all.

EDIT: No one will get mad if you add a sax. And if they do, they'll probably get mad at most anything else.

And personally, I love the soft tonal quality of the sax, and I'd love to see more orchestral music written with them in,

Silly rabbit, sax is for jazz.

I would strangle you.

I already got Glazunov, Debussy, Rachmaninov, and Berg...you're next!

I would strangle you.

You would...but, I'm assuming you know better, and understand that I was joking. ;)

I meant the OP, but I would strangle you too, just for fun.

I meant the OP, but I would strangle you too, just for fun.

...oh. :whistling:

but I do tell you this, if you write for the sax, make sure to specify what kind of "tone" you want in you piece. Remember the Sax may produce sound from very "smooth classical", to bery "bright engy" tone. If you don't mention anything , just the name "Saxophone" ...

Don't worry about that. If a saxophonist walks into an orchestra rehearsal with a jazz mouthpiece and plays all jazzy in tone, they'll throw him out. In the symphony orchestra, it is a recognised fact that the saxophone should adopt a "smooth classical" sound, and not an aggressive jazzy voice. It's all about context. If you write your piece like a bigband chart but only you score it for symphony orchestra, any saxophonist playing your parts might catch on that you want that jazz tone and not a classical sound. Ravel's Bolero ain't jazz, it's classical. If you write a piece and write "SAMBA!" or "Bluesy" or something at the top, then your saxophonist might use a jazz sound. Otherwise, in all other instances, count on them having a classical sound, they should know better.

...oh.

And mild awkwardness prevails...

Oh yeah, James, thanks for reminding me - I got Ravel, too. He deserved it! :evil:

the difference between the smooth classical and the bright engy is in the Mouthpiece, (the Reed too, and the techenique, but the Mouthpiece is essenc

The mouthpiece facilitates the tone you want, but a good saxophonist could sound either controlled or jazzy on the same mouthpiece/reed combo. It's definitely easier if you switch to the appropriate mouthpiece and reed combo for the style you're going to play, of course.

I've done a lot of work on saxophone (there's even a CD out there with me on lead Alto in a big band), but my sound is normally quite 'classical', even when using my 'jazz' set up.

Yes a single Mouthpiece may sound smooth and bright... but others don't..I was just saying that a little indication could be useful.

Yes in a Symphonic Orchestra the player will assume he must play with smooth classical... but what if the composer wants to have the bright tone on his work, (it could be, even in a Symphony) and he suddenly hears that smooth sound ? he will say "Hey