Concerto in f for Horn, Strings and Piano

Gotchya. Concerts are well attended within the richest metropolitan areas of the richest countries in the world.

"Slander - a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report: a slander against his good name." Sorry, I didn't realize a difference in opinion was so offensive. I won't disagree with you again. :)

Sorry we got off topic guys.

Well, based on all of the new music festivals and ensembles dedicated to contemporary music across the nation and across the world, I'm going to go ahead and say that numerous people all over are listening to it.

Nah, you weren't that offensive ;), more like the "straw that broke the camel's back". This forum is riddled with people who do nothing but defecate all over anything that doesn't follow the traditional harmonic rules outlined in Stefan Kostka and Dorothy Payne's Tonal Harmony.

Sorry we got off topic guys.

I second that.

Our responsibility is to influence our society for the better, not cut it off from us.

I fail to see how it "influences society for the better" if you just give them what they already are used to.

And frankly, I believe it shows much more esteem for your audience if you present it with your musical ideas in all honesty, rather than patronizing them by tailoring everything to what you think they want. It is up to them to then decide whether they like it or not, not up to you.

EDIT: But yes, we went off topic. Sorry!

This forum is riddled with people who do nothing but defecate all over anything that doesn't follow the traditional harmonic rules outlined in Stefan Kostka and Dorothy Payne's Tonal Harmony

What the hell forum are you going to? Have you seen the debates about "what is/isn't music" that end in people arguing a fart concerto can be legitimate music?

What the hell forum are you going to? Have you seen the debates about "what is/isn't music" that end in people arguing a fart concerto can be legitimate music?

Apparently I'm just looking at everyone's very traditional music and the conversations about how anything remotely "avant-garde" is "noise".

Again, sorry for getting off topic.

Pardon me, I'm not a very emotional stabile person.

I cried when I got the first comments. It shattered me.

By the end of next week, expect a TOTALLY new concerto. It got a facelift! Same piece, but better!

THANK YOU FOR YOUR VALUEBLE INPUT!

Pardon me, I'm not a very emotional stabile person.

I cried when I got the first comments. It shattered me.

I don't want to sound insensitive here or anything, but if you can't take criticism, you probably shouldn't be in a creative field.

I mean, its great that you've decided revise and improve the piece and iron out it's flaws and that you took the criticisms into consideration, but you can't let someone not liking your music destroy you. Someone is always going to find a flaw somewhere; it's all subjective. If it does upset you that much, you probably shouldn't post your music for review since you're probably not going to get a "this is fantastic" 100% of the time nor will you always get positive feedback.

Thank you. Yes, I am working hard. Ought to be finished by next week. Because the week after that, they start rehearsing.

Anyway, music in South Africa is dead. You will NEVER sell tickets for a 12-tone opera. Beign a classical musician is hard - impossible. There is no job here as a concert pianist and I doubt there is any future for me here. Yet, I will start my Bmus next year.

Nevermind the creative field, I am way too sensitive. I can't handle any critique. I am learning how to cope with that. I am kind - and people who are unkind break me.

Then again... with the composing of this piece, this was the best advice anyone gave me yet. I thank you all. Expect the new score soon. I took away the harpsichord and replaced it with a piano. NOW... I can do very powerfull stuff! True piano style. Since I am a pianist, I am having a bash at writing the piano part. SO MUCH FUN!

Pieter,

First of all, no, I'm not expecting there to be much (Classical) musical activity going on in Africa. Unfortunately, art is often seen as a luxury and one that many countries cannot afford. My point, however, was that concerts of "contemporary" music are attended and aren't "empty" as Caleb said (also, Western art music isn't a big part -- or any part -- of a lot of cultures).

Again, I don't mean to upset you or anything like that. But as a composer or as a pianist you're going to be under constant scrutiny. So you really do need to know how to take a critique and not let it get to you. If such great composers as Mozart and Beethoven and works that we consider masterpieces were severely bashed in reviews, why would you be safe from negative reviews?

"If the best critics and orchestras have failed to find the meaning of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony, we may well be pardoned if we confess our ability to not find any. The Adagio certainly possessed much beauty, but the other movements, particularly the last, appeared to be an incomprehensible union of strange harmonies. Beethoven was deaf when he wrote it... It was the genius of the great man upon the ocean of harmony, without the compass which had so often guided him to his haven of success; the blind painter touching the canvas at random. We can sincerely say that rather than study this last work for beauties which do not exist, we had far rather hear the others where the beauties are plain."

-From the Daily Atlas, Boston, Feb. 6th, 1853

"Poor Debussy, sandwiched in between Brahms and Beethoven, seemed weaker than usual. We cannot feel that all this extreme ecstasy is natural; it seems forced and hysterical; it is musical absinthe; there are moments when the suffering Faun in Debussy's Afternoon of a Faun seems to need a veterinary surgeon."

-Louis Elson, Boston Daily Advertiser, Jan. 2nd, 1905

"It would appear as though Brahms might afford occasionally to put a little more melody into his work -- just a little now and then for a change. His Second Symphony gave the impression that the composer was either endeavoring all the while to get as near as possible to harmonic sounds without reaching them; or that he was unable to find any whatever."

-Boston Traveler, Feb. 27th, 1882

If you can, I suggest you check out Nicolas Slonimsky's Lexicon of Musical Invective. Not only is it fun, but it'll

give you some perspective. (The above reviews are from it! Though I'm not sure why I only pulled reviews from Boston... :unsure:)

If all else fails, you can always just listen to Sibelius when he said, "pay no attention to what the critics say. A statue has never been erected in honor of a critic."

Yes you should take constructive criticisms seriously, but you shouldn't get worked up over them.

Glad you're having fun reworking the piece though! :)

Check page 1 for the new score and MIDI

C'mon guys! ANY improvement is better than no improvement! I have but one week do finish the FINAL version. I beg you... new reviews please!

Hello,

I listened your work, and it's boring , because you are repeating your melodies and ideas too much without any variation. If you want yout work be acceptable, you have lot of work to do, in my opinion.

AS

BORING? My my. You should have seen my first attempt. THAT was dreadfull (even I admit it).

This time aroud, it's far better. I spend hours adjusting. And the progress I made was great! Any more spesifics about boring? The 3rd movement is already better, and so is the 4th movement! The cadenza's are FAR better and the rhythms are too!

Any idea about how I can change my "melodies"? The change of ideas could be shocking. I would little dare to change the main theme's are "melody is master". Should I change the main theme's, how would anyone recognise it?

Please! This attempt is better! More info please!

BORING? My my. You should have seen my first attempt. THAT was dreadfull (even I admit it).

This time aroud, it's far better. I spend hours adjusting. And the progress I made was great! Any more spesifics about boring? The 3rd movement is already better, and so is the 4th movement! The cadenza's are FAR better and the rhythms are too!

Any idea about how I can change my "melodies"? The change of ideas could be shocking. I would little dare to change the main theme's are "melody is master". Should I change the main theme's, how would anyone recognise it?

Please! This attempt is better! More info please!

It's better, but it's still boring. Trying to thoroughly revise and adapt a piece is always a dangerous business. Better to just try again with a new project.

Overall, the music is very predictably and irritatingly cliched. Sometimes this can even work, but not here really, not to my ears. I did appreciate some seemingly Monkey Island flavours though.

That probably all sounds a bit harsh.

But, I believe it to be true.

Why, I have but a week left. I can't possibly concoct a concerto in one week now can I? Saterday I have a full scale concert. No. Less than a week. Friday I must hand in the score.

To take away the irritation: how does one do that? What bothers the listener? How should I change? Comments please! Advice please! Oh, let it hail. Any advice is better than no advice!

Actually, I think this piece is better. It's listenable. The 1st movement is not boring anymore. The 2nd movement is more touching and rhythmically moving. The 3rd movement is more obnoxious and more ridiculous (middle section). The 4th movement is still somewhat of a drag, but the Vittoriasamente is much better! As is the 2nd theme.

Now... help me change while I still have 3 days left. :)

To much the same. I like it, but change it here and there, add something modern, and it will be better. Oh, and it is still to long. WAY to long. You eventually go, "When does this end?" I will say one thing:

SO MUCH BETTER THAN THE ORIGINAL!

But it could use a bit of help here and there, then it would be fab! :D

Okay... help here and there... what do you suggest?

What I AM going to change:

- 2nd movement ending - harmony change (better)

- 4th movement main theme - vartiations and development of motif.

Any other practical ideas? Don't tell me "uhm do this do that"! Give me bar numbers please! :)

Just try and fix up what the others have said. You can't re-write the entire piece before your deadline, so just do a bit of editing, enhance a few things, etc.

Yes, it sucks that you'll have to hand in a piece that you're not happy with (or are you? In which case disregard this), but everyone has bad performances and everyone has performances of bad pieces -- I have, and the best advice I can give you at this point is to learn from the experience of putting it together. Learning to work/communicate with players in rehearsals is just as important as the compositional process (actually, to be honest with you, working with your performers should have been part of the compositional process). So even if you come to hate the piece, or even if everyone thinks its boring, it won't be a total waste.

Perhaps. You know, I am in South Africa. It will be performed in the USA. I will have no part in the rehearsals. Yes, it's very sad. What's next?

Tonight I am going to change as much as I can. Please... more bar numbers and advice would help. Meanwhile, change as much I can! :)

Perhaps. You know, I am in South Africa. It will be performed in the USA. I will have no part in the rehearsals. Yes, it's very sad. What's next?

Tonight I am going to change as much as I can. Please... more bar numbers and advice would help. Meanwhile, change as much I can! :)

Ah, well, you still will have to communicate with the performers. Its too bad that you can't see the performance though. As I said, don't try and re-write the whole thing, you don't have enough time and you won't be satisfied. You posted what you did, obviously you were pleased enough with it to post it, so just fine tune some details. An extensive revision is not do-able.

Even worse, I fear I am unable to do any further improvements or revisions.

I made a great improvement to the 4th movements middle section today... and I think I am done! I can't improve anymore. Just clean up the score... that's all. Expect the final score before friday. Suggestions are still open.

(see page 1 for the final score).

I am proud of the work - next time will be BETTER!

It sounds nice. I think you could spice up the harmonies in the chords a bit more though, in general throughout the piece. :)