Symphony No. 1 in F Minor

Hey everyone ...

It

1st_Movement.MID

2nd_Movement.MID

3rd_Movement.MID

Can you really call it Symphony No.1 until you compose Symphony No.2? Either way, it sounds very nice (1st movement anyway). I can really appreciate how you stick to a Sonata form in this. It is a very structured first movement, which makes pretty nicely for symphonies. The Development section, too, is very nicely.... well.... developed!

What are some of your influences? I definitely sounds late romantic, the changes in color and texture make it very emotional and expressive. I wish I was able to hear this performed by a live group, but I have a pretty good imagination anyway. I'd be very interested in hearing your 4th movement, I hope you post it soon. Nice work, keep it up.

Oh, well, I guess you can, then! Any, I have finished listening to your work in it's entirety, and I like a lot of it. I felt that the second movement was full of phrases that kind of ended abruptly, however. Considering the overall context of the movement, it just really stuck out at me. It would be much better if you could make the lines seamless and overlapping in places. Overall, your texture is very good, and your pesante march feel of the 3rd Movement was very effective for this context. I would still like to hear your Finale in Movement 4. The structure to this point has been near perfect, so I would suggest to let yourself be free and triumphant in the 4th, but that's just my opinion!

Sean C Stork

Thanks Sean - as regards structure, well I didn't think it had a structure really (I don't stick to anything when I'm writing, I kinda went along saying theme development, oh theme again, erm....development? :)) Thanks for your comments anyway. The last movement is coming along nicely though there's still a bit more work to do.

Just a quick post to let you know I really enjoyed this work. I've listened ot it several times running already. An in depth review is forthcoming when I have more time!

Read above ^^^ Nico to the first post about mp3's! :)

Nice piece overall. Let me review the 2nd movement, because those are the ones that most interest me.

1. Very dramatic. I did not like the way the timpani suddenly jumped into the piece however, nor did I like the rest that comes after that passage. Perhaps extending the rest would have made it more enjoyable for me. Concerning the timpani throughout the rest of the movement: your usage simply does not sit well with my ears. .. that is just a matter of personal perferance though, so no worries.

2. I enjoyed the sections featuring solo wind instruments over the strings. I found them to be of nice contrast to the heavier full orchestral parts.

3. I do think that a bit more restraint would be welcome in this movement. You seem to want so much drama that you push the orchestral dynamics into the forte range from too often. It makes those passages insignificant in my opinion. Restrain yourself from constantly blasting into loud sections and you'll be rewarded. To be honest, the constant forte sections, rather than move made, irked me.

Overall this is a good piece of music, although not entirely the style I would listen to if I had the choice. From what I recall, I haven't heard any of your other stuff, so I have nothing to compare this with. Therefore I'll just end this review with a smile :o and a thunbs up :) .

Cheers my Irish-blood brother!

Great, enjoyable romantic piece! I didn't care much about the pauses in the 2nd movement, it still looked beautiful :) I simply love the theme you use in cyclic form :wacko:

Go raibh míle maith agat mo chairde! (thanks a mil me friends) Ooh, I love being Irish - Is gaeilgeoir mé! :)

Thanks for taking the time to listen through. I know symphonies can be long daunting things and you need a lot of patience but both of ye have certainly overcome that! I know what you mean about the timp - I was hoping maybe it could blend in more with the instruments, maybe what you said about dynamic change could help the whole thing.

I simply love the theme you use in cyclic form

M is D: what did you mean exactly by that? (sorry, I'm a dunce when it comes to the ole' technical terms)

Thanks again for the reviews - it always makes me happy when I see that someone else has had a listen through. I was getting a bit worried that the topic was on it's way down to the bottom of the list as everyone seemed to be favouring anything with 'piano' in the title - maybe I should have listed this as a grand piano concerto and then said I lied about the whole thing to get attention ... :wacko:

Hello Thomas,

Your first symphony really is a big romantic work.

I tried to improve the sounds of the MIDI and I tried some small alterations of time. The emotional and expressive potential that was revealed is fabulous. ..! Think of that when is going to note in the score the alterations of time and dynamic. It is a Fantastic Work.

Thank you very much for that! Really appreciate it! :D

To Thomas: a theme you use in more than one movement, when it comes to a large work, is called "cyclic" and thus, you use cyclic form :huh:

Ooh, I like that. That's gonna make me sound really technical :huh:

Allow me to preface my remarks with this: I have listened to this work several times through and have enve used it as my background music on multiple occasions. This is something I gnereally reserve for works I bought on a CD, so consider that high praise.

A few general remarks on what you ave written so far: The musical material flows well together and you have maintained your leading motifs through each movement. That is good, and as others have said, this means you are using cyclic technique in your music. As the Symphony became larger and more complicated, it became necessary for Romantic Era composers to reuse themes from previous movements in new ways in later ones. Your musical language is wholly consistent with that time frame, and while there are a few moments that remind me of game music, it is more because of a particular turn of the melody instead of the lay of the orchestration; on the whole you avoid that trap quite effectively.

Now, to each movement, I have some specific thoughts:

Mvt I - Usually the opening movement of a symphony is in Sonata-Allegro form or a modification there of. While you blended three related themes together, at no point was there a true development section. I think you should consider incorporating one. Why? Because at present the entire 12 and a half minutes of this piece resides in F minor. This forces you to blunt your climaxes instead of allowing them to progress to other keys. To be a truly Romantic era work you need to learn that it is good to change key signatures as the music develops!

Now, as I was listening, here are a few things I noted:

I love the opening tutti. It is very dramatic and catches the listener's attention right away. Plus, it is harmonically balanced very well. I like how it gives way to a very Mahler-esque theme in the Clarinet and Oboe. The run in measure 23 is also a classic example of how to use the harmonic minor scale. Excellently done there. The crescendo and climax from measures 37 to 45 was a nail-bitter. I love listening to that section, because it sets th elistener on the edge of their seat as they wait for the orchestal exclamation! And then you wisely subdue it by following that material with something more sedate. The section that follows with scintillating strings underlying your opening tune is quite well stated. You have some of your best music right here in measures 59-67. Is it harmonically complex, and the listener cannot help but wonder where you are oging to take it. I adore that section. I wish you had taken us directly to a secondary theme from there instead of back to a rather flat restatement of your first theme. The martial music that follow sis good, but it just didn't feel like it should have followed that one part.

The transition in measure 89 seems a little weak, but not overly so. You ave a nice similarity betwwen second and first theme. It is a lovely point in Ab major, which may be the only time you leave the F Minor key. Ooh, I adore that glissando in measure 113! The material that follows is interesting, but it never seems to do much other than roll around trying to pretend to be a development section. It sounds nice, but I'm not convinced by it. The reprise in measure 237 reminds me of Franck. It is bold, and dramatic, even more than the opening. Not quite the same level of pathos as in the Franck, but it approaches it. The music that follows definitely seems to be a recapitulation of sorts.

Oooh, the climax in measure 310 is absolutely stupendous! Nwo this ismusic that should be ending your work. You could stick the ending (which is great), right onto the back of this section and nobody would mind at all! It builds so wonderfully! The intervening material that follows is just more reprisal, but since we've been stuck in F Minor for so long, we can barely hear it, or at least that is how it seems to me.

Mvt II - The first thing I notice is that we are still stuck in F Minor. Usually the middle movements of a Symphony are placed in the Dominant or Subdominant keys. On the whole, you effectively use the singing quality of the strings to create a pasisonately atmospheric adagio. Your themes seem to rise up on woodwinds from the harmonic cloud of strings. The huge climax in th emiddle of the movement is a towering moment. It really speaks to the heart. Ah, I adore the sequence beginning in measure 100. Now that's a beautiful romantic climax. Clever ending on the F major chord instead. Hooray for the Picardy third!

I don't have any other recommendations for this movement. Change the key and you'll be in good shape.

Mvt III - F Minor again?? You must like that key. ;) I like the arpeggios in the woodwinds, those work quite well. This ischerzo seems to dane on the tips of its toes. Well, escept for those tuttis like the one around measure 60. Is this supposed to be a theme and variations? All I seem to hear from this work is a repetition of the same idea over and over again, just with different bakgorund material each time. The music is interesting for a few minutes, but as we draw near to the five minute mark, I am beginning to wonder when this thing will ever end. Ah, aroud minute 6 we have a reprise of th eoepning material for the momvent. A good way to close it off. You might want to pare down th emiddle section, because it doesn't really feel like it is going anywhere. The last twenty seconds of th emovement are VERY good. That was definitely a great ending to the scherzo.

I would like to hear the finale to this, and I think you can make this into a really great work. You've got a natural talent and a great ear for melodies. I just think you need to work to make your harmonies as interesting as your melodies and you'll be set.

Hey Matusleo.

Thank you very much for that detailed review! As regards key, I wanted to stay in the same key throughout the whole symphony to live up to the name of the symphony. I know other composers go through different keys but I just wanted to see how far I could push it!

In the first movement, after the climax at around 8:30 and the recap afterwards, I do modulate to C minor for a while with the horn entry. At the moment, I haven't got the score in front of me but I'll have a look again at your comments and see what I can do! Thanks once again :w00t:

Now that I have a score in front of me, I'll be able to really concentrate in Matusleo's comments! I truly am humbled that you have been listening to this for quite a while - it shows that I've done my job well! As regards the keys, as I said above, I kinda made it a personal quest to stay in F minor as long as I could. I don't stick to form or structure - I think that's quite apparent! - but it was more of a case of theme, development, theme again, new idea, etc. The 'scintillating strings' idea - I always thought that was slightly corny at times, maybe that was what I considered close to game music but I'm glad you enjoyed it. The transition section never sounds good when digitially recreated but as I'm a strings person, I know that's going to work well anyway.

Oh the ole' gliss ;) that's a very me-thing! The section afterwards is what I'd consider the development - instead of taking themes, I'm using motifs and just sticking them around in a way that seems somewhat logical! That climatic section was actually added in at the last moment (the ending had already been written at that stage). I wanted to have the final recap of the main theme again because it hadn't been heard in a while and that ending is just very Tchaikovistic - definitely wanted that!

The second movement there - glad you enjoyed it. That picardy third was going to lead off to a lighter section but I've chosen to add this into the fourth movement. I particularly didn't want to end in F minor again! I guess being stuck in the same key really brings out these moments of key change - I'm just trying to keep everyone in suspense. As a rule of mine, whatever key a tune comes to me in, I tend to keep in that key, even if it's something as weird as Eb minor - the opening section is just that and F minor allows the use of the lower strings, especially with the basses. Putting it in a higher key would tend to ruin the effect of the low, 'rumbling' bass string section.

As regards structure of the third movement, it's more of a tenary form than anything I guess. The A section goes up to 105, with the reinforcing section at B for development and then recap at 247. New themes and ideas appear at the B section, with the retrograde (or inverted) idea which builds to the climax later on. The Fmin-Ebmaj idea plays a dominant role in this section and isn't that effective on computer recordings unfortunately so I guess that's why this section didn't appeal to you as much.

The fourth movement is slowly getting there. Will be in contact when it makes it's way onto this thread. Thanks again for your review! :glare:

There are so many moments during this where I could easily be listening to Tchaikovsky. Wonderful. I think the MIDI does it little justice though. I would love to hear this performed.

I don't think I need to say I'm Tchaikovsky's No. 1 fan! :)

From what I've heard Thomas, a very good Symphony.

I suppose if you really wanted a tribute to Wagner you'd need to get in touch with your darker side :D There isn't enough; if any chromaticism. And take note the chromaticism isn't only there to ornament the piece, but should be a functional harmonic construct of the piece if you're really going to invoke a Wagnerian style!

Good work.

Keep posting!

p.s. hehe you Irish.. Sorry if i'm generalising but arn't you all known for your quirky sense of humour, rather than dark sides? :) :D

Cheers,

Robert.

Well it wasn't really a tribute to Wagner - just motifs that Wagner would have used (if you listen to the falling and rising wind in the opening section of the third movement and compare it to the Ride of the Valkyries). It's most Tchaikovsky-like I think rather than really dark Wagner.

And the Irish and their humour? ... well, give us a drink and we'll be your next best friend :D

Here's the fourth movement for the moment (it's been six months to the day since I began writing this symphony). It's almost all finished but I just want to add a development section in the middle to lengthen the whole thing (this'll be added around the 5min mark, or 184 if you're reading bar numbers).

There are lots of Sibelius references (listen to the 2nd symphony and compare)!

4th_Movement.MID

Here's the fourth movement for the moment (it's been six months to the day since I began writing this symphony). It's almost all finished but I just want to add a development section in the middle to lengthen the whole thing (this'll be added around the 5min mark, or 184 if you're reading bar numbers).

There are lots of Sibelius references (listen to the 2nd symphony and compare)!

sigh

I wish there was a score, I'd love to see this.

it was VERY good.

very VERY nice use of the blending of instruments in the opening section.

Well, just to please you :P

Symphony No. 1, Fourth Movement [pdf]

It's just over a megabyte - sorry it's so big, but I think it's worth the wait!!

Man, I'm pretty sure your timpanist is going to hate you.

For what bit - or is it just the changing of the timpani in such short spaces of time? I really need to review the whole timpani situation ... but sure, percussionists love to be challenged! :P