Dawn - An Intro To A Larger Work (orchestra)

Hello chums;

I've begun the first rough sketches of a very large multi-movement work for Symphony Orchestra all about the Twentieth Century - from the American point of view (the only view I'm really familiar with). In this work we will cover the two world wars, the great depression, the space race, the technology boom, and a bunch of other super duper things.

However, I've chosen to begin this work with a simple intro movement, simply about the Dawn of the century itself. This intro movement will need some prefacing, because I just KNOW if I don't say anything the comments I get will mostly consist of "Hey, you repeated those chords a bunch of times - try something else!" which I suppose is perfectly valid, but let me at least get a word in.

The intro movement is short, about 2:30, and features a basic three chord progression around which the entire movement is conceived. This motive will return throughout the rest of the work, as just a "20th century" theme, and to ensure it's very recognizable, I've repeated it over and over and over in this intro. This repetativeness is designed to make the movement one massive build; an orchestrated crescendo.

THAT SAID, if it is still, to your ears, just repeated way too many times to hold any interest, THAT'S what I'd like to know. I want to know if this "build" works.

The plan is to continue posting movements as they become existent, but for now all we have is numba I. So let me know what you think!

MP3: 20th - I. Dawn.mp3 - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage

(note - the sounds are a bit off in the mp3, like the oboe is some oriental sounding plucked instrument, but I think you can get the idea)

20th - I. Dawn.pdf

good fine

keep going

likes it, but wishes it were a bit louder.

Edit: Oh wait! Lol, I had the headphones in the wrong slot!

Hi, I stayed interested, even the 2nd time I listened it. I kind of liked it.

2 minor issues.

*The oboe sounds like a highpitched timpani

*The flute tremolos wont be nice to play (i think they dont like it) and they need breathing space... But i'm no flutist

It reminded me in a way to Shostakovich 11th and 12th symphony: a long introduction to a theme, and a programatic symphony covering a historic era.

I'm curious to the B-theme, it need to be contrasting...

likes it, but wishes it were a bit louder.

Edit: Oh wait! Lol, I had the headphones in the wrong slot!

Oh wow... Ummm

(to dev's piece, I liked it a lot! Keep it up. And good luck...)

This is a very interesting concept for a large work and I look forward to seeing your progress on the other movements. Have you had any thoughts about how many? - to me it would be nice to have more than the usual four to create an original multi-movement plan. The reason I mention this is that the success of the excerpt you have posted depends very much on what is to follow. It is pretty static and slow-moving, which is not a fault in itself, but this will need to be balanced by having a lot of music following it to justify the pace at this point. The obvious comparison that sprang to mind was the opening of Mahler's Titan symphony - long held chord and little melodic figures. However, your movement doesn't create the same effect as the Mahler. It is, I'm afraid, rather repetitive - I was bored of the motif by the end of the first page. The presentation of the theme at bar 17 was not sufficiently different to renew my interest and the subsequent entries also required further variation. In addition, the excerpt as a whole suffers from a lack of sufficient momentum and interest in the individual parts. If I saw my part (cello) I'd have to say it wouldn't excite me particularly with all those long notes and simple rhythms. For example, the cellos at bar 7 could be given a slow triplet figure alternating between the root and the fifth of the chord. You add new rhythmic material at bars 24 and 30, which renews the interest, but these quickly become repetitive and predictable too. The oboes and clarinets will appreciate having somewhere to breathe, as will most of the brass. What would also improve this excerpt is the suggestion of other key areas to heighten the tension and sense of climax. If one looks at any long pedal figure from Bach to the present day, it is often used as a base for harmonies over it that pull further and further away from the tonic. I think that your writing would also benefit from greater use of counterpoint as this can be an effective device for creating and maintaining tension rhythmically.

I'd like to suggest a few works to study which are directly relevant to this piece:

Richard Strauss: Eine Alpensinfonie (An Alpine Symphony), opening movements 'Night' and 'Sunrise'

Respighi: The Pines of Rome, final movement 'The Pines of the Appian Way'; also ' The Jubilee' from Roman Festivals

Mahler: Symphony No.1 'Titan', opening

Britten: Sinfonia da Requiem, opening of 'Lacrymosa'

Shostakovich: Symphony No.11 'The Year 1905', opening

Wagner: Das Rheingold, prelude (49 bars of a single chord of Eb, yet one of the most effective and evocative climaxes in music)

Yeah certainly more than 4 movements. I was thinking 10.

I meant to mention somewhere in the OP that I really don't want to call this a symphony, but that's the closest thing to what I'm trying to do.

A Suite, maybe? Think Holst's planet suite.

I really don't want to call it anything. They're just pieces that fit together.

Dev

What programe are you using to create this? I am sure that there is someone here that can tell you how to make that an Oboe instead of whatever it is.

Often times I take a theme right to its edge of becoming boring. You have done the same with this opening. Some will find it too far while others will just almost become to tire of it. One thing that might help is to do just very mild variations of the theme a little quicker than you do. Vary the instrumentation more and it won't seem as if the same theme is being stated over and over.

Look forward to more.

Ron

It's an oboe in finale. Somehow that just didn't carry to the mp3. But that's the smallest of the issues I think.

well; it does change to sound considerably :)

maybe the oboe is on the same channel as the timpany? its easy to check, and would help the people not familiar with the rich tone of the oboe :toothygrin:

I liked most of the piece, though I felt it went nowhere. I was surprised when it ended. I guess, as it's an intro, you showed the main theme and did all well for an intro, but I still felt as though nothing really happened.

I agree with siwi's and rolifer's observations. As it stands the intro is OK but your melodic material gets monotonous (even with the imitation) partly because of orchestration issues - why restate it again in brass? Why not have the pedal line move to strings or varied slightly with a rhythmic pattern while a woodwind choir takes upthe melodic fragment? Another area that could be improved - not much mind you - is SLIGHTLY more interesting counterpoint.

Also, regarding rolifer's comment. If you want to see and hear a fantastic example of repeating and slowly transforming small melodic units look at sections of Rite of Spring. Realize your goals are different but worth studying.

The other option of course is to have the following movements with greater degrees of motivic development or dissolution. Also, you could consider greater timbral variations (see Schoenberg's Variations for orchestra).

So, I think you are off to a decent start, I just think it could be far better this movement than what you have - in fact it could be longer and the drama a little more involved.

PS. No offense intended, but starting the piece with low strings (though an intelligent choice) has been done so much that it is incredibly cliche - may want to consider a little more original opening. You could have say flutes start the melodic opening in their high registers and dissipate as the low note in the low strings comes in fits and starts as one possibility.

I think the beginning is okay. It might be a cliche, but then again, anything short of having the whole orchestra stand up and spit at the audience has been done before...

In fact, I think the spitting was done once in the 60's...

builds up nicely. i like the sound of it :)

Its monotonus but this is exactly I like it...creates a kind of ambinet effect..nice :thumbsup: