Reflections in the Rain (Orchestral Version)

I originally wrote this for solo piano, but decided to transcribe it for orchestra. Please comment and critique it. I had never written for orchestra before, so this was my "experiment", and I think it turned out pretty nicely (at least for a first-timer). If there is anything you have to comment on, PLEASE do so as this is the only way I can learn.It is written for:2 Flutes2 Oboes2 Clarinets1 Bassoon4 Horns3 Trumpets2 Trombones1 Bass Trombone1 Tuba1 Timpani1 Piano2 Violins1 Viola1 Violincello1 Contrabass

Reflections in the Rain (Orchestral Version)

Audibly, it's not bad. Would love to see a posted score to better analyze the work.

Would love to see a posted score to better analyze the work.

ummmm i'm not quite sure how to post a score other than this

ummmm i'm not quite sure how to post a score other than this

Install PDF Creator

Once installed, all you have to do is select print in the File menu. On the print screen select setup and it will allow you to chose which printer you would like to print to. Select PDF Creator. Complete the screens that follow to save the file as a PDF file.

Hope that helps.

Install PDF Creator

Once installed, all you have to do is select print in the File menu. On the print screen select setup and it will allow you to chose which printer you would like to print to. Select PDF Creator. Complete the screens that follow to save the file as a PDF file.

Hope that helps.

Thanks a bunch. I'll try that.

Thanks a bunch. I'll try that.

I've used it for about a year now. It works great. Your welcome.

I really enjoyed the piece. Nothing I could hear to critique on first go around. A score of everything would help greatly with critiquing it, but listening to it, it's absolutely beautiful!

I really enjoyed the piece. Nothing I could hear to critique on first go around. A score of everything would help greatly with critiquing it, but listening to it, it's absolutely beautiful!

The computer I have the score on won't let me upload the file... :( and I don't have Sibelius on my home computer so as of right now I can't upload it...

You asked for comments that will help you improve. Hopefully my comments will help you.

I can hear some 'muddy' orchestration in the low brass, especially near the latter half of the piece. You might want to look at voicing in the brass parts and check to make sure the harmonies are not covering up some of the overtones. Read about the overtone series and how lower pitches emit higher frequencies (overtones). Especially in the lower register, and ESPECIALLY in the brass, it's particularly important to know what will sound murky. If you want it to sound muddy, that's one thing. I don't think that's what you're going for, though.

Now, onto the musical 'content'. Let's go over a few things...

You have a wonderfully lyrical melody. It's beautiful the first time I hear it. It's still nice the next time. Then I started hearing it over and over again. It's difficult to cross this bridge from really loving a melody and putting a compositional, developmental approach to work. This is your job as a composer, in part. You want to take this melody you love and represent it in as many different ways as you can. You should take this melody and create different versions of it. Even if some of the melodies you end up with sound NOTHING like your original, that's OKAY. That's what you WANT. You want your pick of the litter, so to speak... the best of the best.

Some of the things you can do is change the rhythm of the pitches. Lengthen some of the pitch durations, subdivide or otherwise reduce other note durations. Don't rely ONLY on your ear at this point. Use some basic compositional skills to explore mutations of the melody you're using.

Another thing I like to do is invert and adjust my pitches. I'll take your line, for example, turn it completely upside down, then I'll play/listen to it. There might be a few pitches that I want to be higher or lower. I may do all of this, then mutate that line by playing it/writing it backwards. Then I might make more adjustments. I'll take my pick of the litter from these and choose which ones I want to harmonize.

When I've taken this far enough, I'll harmonize the ideas I like. I might transpose them to different keys and experiment with different inversions of the harmony (like, changing rooted chords into a progression that alternates between first, second, and third inversion chords). Look these things up on Google to learn more about them.

Another approach to harmonizing is contrapuntal. Take some of the ideas and simply come up with a two- or three-line countrapuntal texture (where there's no real 'functional harmony' occurring - this I-V-I business - rather, multiple lines are related by respective intervals). Some of the contrapuntal lines that emerge from this can also become more melodic material, even solo content for one or more of the instruments in your ensemble.

This allows you more developmental opportunities to explore 'Texture'. In your piece, you're more or less using only a polyphonic texture... which is fine if you can vary that with some homophonic, monophonic, or heterophonic material. Realize that there are other textures you can use. You could write some of your material in a heterophonic texture, which is like what "Row, Row, Row Your Boat" sounds like when you divide into groups and begin singing in different places. Solo material would be considered 'monophonic' while straight chord progressions with no melody would be considered 'homophonic'. None of these textures are hard and fast, concrete things to abide by... quite the opposite actually. These are merely guiding concepts to consider music more 'dimensionally'.

I could go on, but I've said plenty already. I hope some of this is helpful to you.

This is absolutely gorgeous, and I love the title you gave it! :) This is one of my favorites on this site...

You asked for comments that will help you improve. Hopefully my comments will help you.

...

I could go on, but I've said plenty already. I hope some of this is helpful to you.

Thanks a bunch! I really don't have someone to tell me these things at my school. I'll try to put these ideas into my music :D

It would be the best to actually score the music for the orchestra and just piano.

It would be the best to actually score the music for the orchestra and just piano.

Isn't that what I did? An orchestra with a piano?

I agree with TheMaskedTrumpeter

i couldn't hear anything wrong with the piece, other than maybe a little repetition. Your piece is absolutely beautiful though, Amazing job for your first time

Isn't that what I did? An orchestra with a piano?

I think what he's referring to is the way you -arranged- the orchestra. The texture, polyphony, of the orchestra is more typical of piano music than orchestral music. But if I'm interpreting his/her comment correctly, s/he's saying that both the orchestra and the piano are playing the exact same polyphonic texture, practically note for note. One of the reasons I believe I'm hearing a rather -murky- sound in the low brass might be due to this arrangement of pitches, note-for-note, with the piano.

One of the things you can do is combine textures between the piano and the orchestra. For one section of the piece, you might have the strings of the orchestra softly play some of your chords (homophonic texture) while the piano plays the polyphonic portion. In another section, you could have the piano roll out simple chords while an instrument solos some melodic material, then you could have another instrument play a contrapuntal line (sort of like a duet) to complete or build into another section. This way, you pull more out of the piece than you would if it were written only for piano, expressing yourself with a little more extension of your musical ideas through the instruments of the orchestra. Even the smallest things might make a big difference to listeners.

Try combining the piano, a flute, an oboe, and maybe a muted french horn... maybe add some percussion gestures (like a Rain Stick and Bell Tree) and low strings (Cello/Basses) holding pedal tones from the bass part of the piano section. This gives you a taste of each instrument family (Woodwinds, Brass, Strings, and Percussion/Keyboard). This is one of MANY instrumental combinations you could create for sections of this piece that would break up some of the monotony and repetition of the content. Don't be afraid to experiment with different kinds of instrument textures as well as contextual (Homophonic, Monophonic, etc) textures.

You're off to an incredible start as you already have a piano piece from which to springboard into orchestrating. What's better is it's YOUR piece, not a piece you're arranging that someone else wrote. So, you already have a head start in exploring all the ways to express your ideas with more attention to detail. All I think you really need from us (in terms of commentary) are ideas that might help you take this piece to the next level. You're well on your way.

All I think you really need from us (in terms of commentary) are ideas that might help you take this piece to the next level. You're well on your way.

Thanks for clearing up my question. And thanks for the great advice--> I'll study the score some more and figure out how to best incorporate these ideas!

Again, thanks to all who have commented/critiqued this. I really really appreciate it!

I'd love to give this a listen, but the sound file is not found. Could you please reupload it for me?

ok, the files are re-uploaded. try it now...

After listening to your work many, many, many times I can truly say I love this material. However, as this is your first orchestration 'experiment' I must ask what you learned from this exercise? Your orchestrational approach was good but I personally think it could be better - and after patience, perseverance, and practice you will. Now that you have started this, my wish is that you continue with orchestrating works AND developing your thematic material appropriately. My only complaint with this work is that you spent little time developing this material but instead continued to let the melody unravel over and over and over again. Is that a bad thing? Absolutely not. Does it showcase your abilities as a composer? No. I agree with what Serge said above.. this is an absolutely gorgeous exercise!

You did a very good job with the string parts! They are very well in range and you utilized them very well. This piece as a whole sounds even better; it speaks to me by describing a very vivid picture in my head. A+! (It would be nice for a score to follow along with, hopefully you can upload it soon)

I forgot to say somethings; I absolutely adore the main theme and the harmony to it as well. However, it seems as though while the main theme plays there's alot of stuff going on in the background; it just seems to be too much at times. Also from 3:19 to 4:40 in the piece, it doesn't seem to be necessary in this piece. All in all I would just say less is more.

Sorry just one more post! If you can upload the score at school you can always print of the SIB file and then you can use your notation program at home to rewrite it and then you can use the PDF Forge to create online score for us! I know it may be tedious and it may require some time out of your already busy schedule (I'm assuming) but this piece is phenomenal and I think this work can be better evaluated with an actual score to look at. Like I said just give it some thought.

Now that I've had a look at the score, I can go more in depth with my reviews. For starters, when you add strings you should always figure out some kind of bowing. Looking throughout the score, none of the strings had any slurs, which seem to be a big part in making this piece sound flowing. At letter G, the 2nd violin has runs, which is okay if played at one volume, but you have it as a piannissimo and you end with a piannississimo, which is very hard to do on a string instrument. I'm not saying it's impossible, but you may want to look that over. The 11/8 meters are okay, but I think 12/8 would work better, just because 11/8 seems to end abruptly instead of giving the audience enough time to take in the beautiful cords. At letter D, the main theme is played in a canon, but it doesn't mesh very well, especially with the subordinate harmonies. At Letter F, the low brass has the melody and it sounds good, i just think that they should all be playing the exact same thing, right now it sounds very blurry and mushy. As far as ranges go, the oboes are going to have a hard time, a high F is rarely used, especially in 2nd Oboe. I would suggest swapping the parts with the 2nd flute, you could even add a 3rd flute if necessary. I think i said before that this piece kind of drags on and on, it's beautiful, but very and unnecessarily, long. These are all suggestions to make this fantastic piece, extraordinary

Edited October 21, 201015 yr by SYS65
Merge Posts, Use the Edit button instead posting again

Noting what most have said above, I would LOVE to see a score. I use finale, so the sibelius file WILL not be compatible. Ouch. Anyway... Like Antiatonality (who's name I disagree with, given that one of my Idols was Mr. Silence himself) keenly said, you need to vary your melodies. Use inversions, use augmentation (making pitches longer, for instance, taking a sixteenth note melody, placing it in 8th notes, and then writing a countermelody), diminution (the opposite). Also, the listener can tell that it wasn't designed for orchestra originally. The parts are too uniform, and not so much characteristic of the instruments playing them. When you write for orchestra or band, make sure that the character of the instrument fits the character of the part.

good music ...a real ... freak compsoer

why you repeat the same chord progression all time

Edited October 21, 201015 yr by SYS65
Posts merged, Use the Edit button instead posting again

excellent job... love it

Thanks Everyone