What is music?

Screw putting a label on 'music' and screw discussion on what 'is' art.

after making this thread I am beginning to feel the same way.

however I feel that there is a problem with completely individual definitions as they may lead to conflict.

if it is someones intention to do something they perceive as good--another person may disagree

after making this thread I am beginning to feel the same way.

however I feel that there is a problem with completely individual definitions as they may lead to conflict.

if it is someones intention to do something they perceive as good--another person may disagree

Perceptions will vary greatly from one individual to the other, and it's clear that a) discussions like this will lead to some kind of conflict and b) no conclusion will ever be reached.

However, I believe the main purpose of these discussions is to allow those who want to express their opinion to do so, and to incite personal reflections and inquiries on the subject being debated about... threads like this one are there to equip people to be able to draw their own conclusions.

Music is what music does. What does it do? I don't know but I do like it when it does it.

Let's just agree that today you can take a scraggy from the top of a building and then call it art.

If you have to ask what music is, you'll never know.

The intent and impulse behind the question is not wrong headed, rather the question is not worded well - too general.

Perceptions will vary greatly from one individual to the other, and it's clear that a) discussions like this will lead to some kind of conflict and b) no conclusion will ever be reached.

On the contrary, it seems to me that this thread has very much come to a rather agreeable conclusion. I mean... even Tokke agreed. The discussed appears to have said that 'Music is an art whose medium is sound.' 'What is music is determined by the intent of the creator or perception of the listener.' 'Hence, music simply is.'

This is really the closest we've ever come to agreeing with each other since this question was first asked on this website.

On the contrary, it seems to me that this thread has very much come to a rather agreeable conclusion. I mean... even Tokke agreed. The discussed appears to have said that 'Music is an art whose medium is sound.' 'What is music is determined by the intent of the creator or perception of the listener.' 'Hence, music simply is.'

This is really the closest we've ever come to agreeing with each other since this question was first asked on this website.

Excellent news! Let's close the thread and preserve this unanimousness !! :)

We all know events like this are few and far between!

We'll try for another "harmonious phiolosophical community" decision when the next "what makes music good" thread comes around ;)

Music is an art form in which a series of noises, or pure tones are arranged in diffrent rythmic patterns.

Now, I personaly believe that pure ambient noise can't be music, it can be PART of a composition, but you can't tape a crowd sitting in an auditorium for 4 munites and 33 seconds and call it music.

Music is an art form in which a series of noises, or pure tones are arranged in diffrent rythmic patterns.

Now, I personaly believe that pure ambient noise can't be music, it can be PART of a composition, but you can't tape a crowd sitting in an auditorium for 4 munites and 33 seconds and call it music.

Yes you can. You can do anything you want to do.

Yes you can. You can do anything you want to do.

Yes, you can. But it dosen't make it true.

You can worship your cat like it is a god, it dosen't make it one.

Doesn't make it true? Well, you can worship your own opinion like it is The Truth, but this doesn't make it one. Of course, I don't mind if you do that and have your own truth. I do that, too.

As I usually say, music isn't true or false, right or wrong - it simply is.

You can worship your cat like it is a god, it dosen't make it one.

Says who?

And, for the record, cats have played an important role in a number of religions over the years (and this does include "god-like" worship).

Now, I personaly believe that pure ambient noise can't be music, it can be PART of a composition, but you can't tape a crowd sitting in an auditorium for 4 munites and 33 seconds and call it music.

Ah, the classic JCJ! (John Cage Jab )

I bet if you search the forum you can find plenty of posts that refute this ad nauseum.

Says who?

And, for the record, cats have played an important role in a number of religions over the years (and this does include "god-like" worship).

Says logic. If I say the sky is pink, does that make it pink? Pink by my deffinition maybe, which may be analogus to your deffintion of blue, but either way, we are talking about the same thing, just with diffrent deffinitions.

The sky is blue, (by common deffintion) that is fact, and the sky is not pink.

The issue is simply in our deffintion of music, does ambient noise count as music? I certianly don't think so, but John Cage did...

Is a blank canvas art, what about a blank notebook, is this literature?

Now, just for the record, I do think that most of John Cage's works are music, a lot it of it may be stretching the deffinition, but it is music never the less, 4'33 however, in my opinion, isn't music.

... does ambient noise count as music? I certianly don't think so, but John Cage did...

Is a blank canvas art, what about a blank notebook, is this literature?

Was John Cage wrong? Is it possible that you don't have a universal definition of "music"??

Please don't try and force your own perspective on everyone else... we're perfectly entitled to our own opinions.

Also...you've never seen a pink sky?

WTF IS THIS?!! Holy cow...you mean.... a blue sky could sometimes also be pink!!??

The mind boggles.

WTF IS THIS?!! Holy cow...you mean.... a blue sky could sometimes also be pink!!??

I <3 U

@keys&guitar

I guess this isn't art either, huh?

I <3 U

@keys&guitar

I guess this isn't art either, huh?

I <3 Rothko.

I don't think sounds needs to be intended or perceived for it to be "music". "Music" is just a social information category based on a set of historical associations with certain human behaviors. Because you can perceive the sound of the wind in the trees as "music", it is; it doesn't matter if you ever do perceive it, or if somebody caused the wind by manipulating the weather with a high-tech future technology we can only dream about, and quiver as the thought enters our feeble minds, clearing the red to create a path which fades forever into a distant and extremely beautiful future. Every sound (or physical event, for that matter) has a certain "structure" and "form" which could pretty easily be legitimated by a "logical" argument, and certainly appreciated "aesthetically", if came down to that. Any context could be perceived as defining.

There are already 4000 threads on this... do we really need another one?

There's billions of pieces of music... do we really need another one?

No.

Yeah, but are these billions of works actually "music" to everyone? Maybe out of these billions of pieces, only 1 of them qualify as "music" to someone, right? Hence, we can have billions of works that all happen to appeal to some and not to others. Just sayin', we may have billions of works, but to any one person not each and every one of these works will qualify as music. Billions of works can quickly become millions, millions can become thousands, thousands can become hundreds, and hundreds can become several, depending on who's listening.

Just a thought that came to me reading through the thread. Anyone agree with this?

Anyone agree with this?

No.

No.

I agreed.

Speak for yourself next time.

To bit a bit more of a precise definition on it, I'll use the words of Vladimir Horowitz: "Music is emotion, controlled emotion."

I'd be even more specific and say that music doesn't even necessarily have to be organized in anyway. It's the expression of the thoughts, emotions, or spiritual dwellings-on of the composer. These ideas can be completely disorganized, non-linear, whatever. They are usually expressed through sound, though I really wouldn't define music as just an audio experience. Audio is just one of the media through which it is expressed. Take Beethoven for instance. All he heard was the music in his head, which was not sound. He changed it to audio form, yes, but the product in his head was not audio.