Sound libraries: Which one to use?

Hi all,

This is my first posting in the technical dept. foremost because I am not at all technically inclined and most of the discussions here go way above my mind. Nevertheless, I need some help and/or some suggestions on how to proceed:

I am using Finale for composing my music. Appareantly the Garritan sound library does not offer all the possibilities I need. To give you but one example: Tubular Bells are not within the list offered by Finale using Garriton true sound. Snare drums cannot be selected and the percussion lines where various percussion instruments can be selected sound at a very low volume.

Hence, I am thinking of turning to a sound library. However, being a student, I do not have that amount of money at my disposal as I wished I would have. Checking EWQLSO ... I nearly got an heart-attack... 899 US dollars is something I cannot affored.

Therefore my question: is there any good sound library which is cheap and or of which there is a free download available. If it is on the net, my IT-teacher said, secondary versions can be found, you only have to look for it. Which sound libraries would you suggest?

I mainly write for classical orchestras.

Kind regards to you all and happy weekend.

Wolfgang

Get the cheapest EWQL or get it on sale.

I don't think EWQL would be great for a classical orchestra. EWQL is made largely for that big and deep Hollywood-sound and not the classical feel that classical music has. For that you'll need a more expressive VST and Vienna Symphonic Library is the number 1 sound library for classical pieces with its diversity and abundance of available instruments (it is also a powerful replacement for EWQL and in many cases it even tops EWQL's film-sound, and VSL is used by a lot of composers-- like Danny Elfman). The brass in VSL is very lackluster compared to EastWest, but it's easy enough to combine VSL instruments with EWQL instruments in a sequencer.

SoundsOnline's Hollywood Strings I feel do not top the strings that come with VSL, or at least the difference is so minimal I can't hear it. VSL, however, is much, MUCH more expensive than EWQL.

You can probably make EWQL sound good for a classical orchestra, but I feel that'd be a waste; the sound library is made for filmmusic and the sounds are recorded for the film industry.

Of course I can't speak from experience, but I've listened to a lot of EastWest libraries and a lot of VSL music and I really, REALLY don't think EastWest is the best choice for classical music.

This is also a slight case of "believing what you're told"; a few friends of mine who use EWQL also spoke against the notion of using that library for classical music a year back when I began looking for a good sound library myself.

For a cheaper VST with decent sounds I'd recommend Miroslav Philharmonik. It feels a bit incomplete and the standard Timpani sounds are out of tune and the strings are slightly muddy, but it's made for a classical orchestra. It doesn't cover all the articulations, but I'm coping by improvising and using other articulations to emulate the effects I want.

It is very cheap though, and highly memory-efficient. SampleTank (the engine it uses) may lack a bit of performance on the CPU side, but it does the trick.

It's not that ASIO-friendly and requires a bit of tinkering for it to work properly with the driver, but aside from that I recommend MP to anyone who's looking for a cheap, but decent VSTi.

Not to mention that Miroslav got percussion instruments and ambient elements that not even VSL or EWQL has, as well as a large collection of excellent percussion sounds and a small, but fantastic collection of woodwinds.

Miroslav's brass is rather lackluster, but it does the trick and though the string sounds are a bit muddy, they have plenty of articulations and are fairly easy to use. And their solo string sounds are gorgeous.

If you'd like to hear examples of Miroslav in action, check out some of my music. It's not great & I'm still working out a lot of kinks in the VST (simply because I am clueless about the technical aspects of a VST & I'm learning by trial & error), but it should give you a good idea. You can also go here to check how I work with Miroslav: http://www.furaffinity.net/gallery/luxy/

My gallery on FurAffinity (please ignore the fact that it's a furry site?) is full of pieces. A lot of them will sound different because I've always been changing the settings on my Miroslav to get it to sound like how I want, but it should give you a good idea. Watch out for my low-quality VST pieces, btw! If it sounds like MIDI, it probably IS.

You can also check out the demos and other features, AND watch videos of the library in action here: http://www.ikmultimedia.com/philharmonik/features/

Remember that the library DOES have a lot of downsides, but the ups are also very good. You should try the demo, but be prepared for some frustration in making it sound like how you want. You're also going to have a lot of "fun" with fixing the Timpani sounds.

If you can live with that, however, you'll have a fairly solid VST. If there are any specific sounds you want, but you lack, you can always have a look here: http://www.vst4free.com/

This website lists A LOT of free VST instruments and even some that are surprisingly high quality. (I've heard there was a harp one that beat even VSL's harp sounds, but I've been unable to find that one)

I hope you find what you're looking for!

VSL: Top notch.... but very expensive.... He says he thinks EWQL is expensive, so what about VSL??

EW: not classical?!?!?!?!?!?

Miroslav: dated.... NOT good.

I know it's not classical music, but: http://www.thomas.bryla.dk/Sted/Music_files/BrylaProminentParty.mp3

Martin: I think you're not basing your advice on experience but rather on people on the internet have been saying, right?

After the first few paragraphs of your post I didn't want to read further through your post of nonsense....sorry but lets have some sound advice instead

VSL: Top notch.... but very expensive.... He says he thinks EWQL is expensive, so what about VSL??

EW: not classical?!?!?!?!?!?

Miroslav: dated.... NOT good.

I know it's not classical music, but: http://www.thomas.bryla.dk/Sted/Music_files/BrylaProminentParty.mp3

Martin: I think you're not basing your advice on experience but rather on people on the internet have been saying, right?

After the first few paragraphs of your post I didn't want to read further through your post of nonsense....sorry but lets have some sound advice instead

My opinions on EastWest is based on music created with the library and information I've gotten from people I personally know who use the VSTi in a professional working environment. The same applies for VSL. Unfortunately I am one of the unlucky "few" who cannot afford a VSTi with a four-digit cost which renders me in a position where I have to make do with a makeshift repertoire of budget libraries and free VSTi plugins & sound fonts.

Your posts no longer strike me as 'professional' criticism, though. I would prefer that if you have a personal issue with me you'd contact me through PMs so that we may sort it out rather than maintaining your irrational witch-hunt.

Otherwise I would much prefer that you leave criticism instead of your obvious attempts at flaming and spamming. After all, why did you reply to my post to begin with if you didn't want to tell OP why I am wrong?

You have not argued for EWQL's superiority in any way other than ORDERING, not SUGGESTING that OP obtains the cheapest EastWest Quantum Leap library during SoundsOnline's sales.

You have not stated why you think OP would benefit from this VSTi. You have not described (nor demonstrated) the ups and downs of the library. You have not explained exactly why you think this library would be best for the OP's needs.

You have not at all given the OP any form of constructive advice or suggestions. You only typed down one sentence before you hit the Reply-button: "Get the cheapest EWQL or get it on sale."

Frankly, you are in no position to attack me nor my post unless you can counter it with PROPER arguments made in the OP's best interest rather than posting for the sake of raising your post count.

Thus far in the discussion I have been the only one who genuinely tried to help the OP. I've told him or her what I knew about other sound libraries, I clearly stated that my information is based on observations and information obtained from other users of the sound libraries in question and that I have no personal experience with them. With that information in mind, it should be obvious to anyone that my statements should be taken with a grain of salt.

I then presented facts about the sound library I'm currently using which is Miroslav Philharmonik (and it is the cheapest, decent VSTi out there that I know of), described most of the sound library's ups and downs, its faults and its strengths, as well as its possible uses, how versatile it can be, etc.

This is important information that is not necessarily found on the product's page at IKMultimedia.com , which is vital for anyone looking into a decent & affordable VST.

I've also provided the OP with a resource for free VSTi plugins and some of those plugins rival even your beloved EWQL in sound quality, believe it or not.

My post was reasonable and the advice I gave was sound enough and much better than your half a line, which in my opinion doesn't even qualify as a proper forum post.

When next you reply to my posts, IF you reply, I beg that you carefully consider what you write. You will not be able to win an argument between you and me if you cannot elaborate on your statements and/or reasons for disagreeing, particularly not if you continue to attack me like this.

Okay -

VSL: I would also recommend it for every musical application out there, but the price range really is out of the range.

While Miroslav made a great library for the Kontakt platform the transition to the IK player made it lose some great programming ability. The IK programming also lacks and the sampling is not deep at all. In that regard it resembles the Siedlaczek Advanced Orchestra - which I would prefer, but it still is very outdated although with SIPS programming in Kontakt you can get nice results on many of the instruments.

EWQL: just with the stage microphones you have a very good sound of the orchestra. You get lots of instruments and lots of articulations and techniques. Just look at the articulation page. It is the bang for the buck. The Gold edition can be bought for around 200USD on sale. I don't know what Miroslav may set you back in your country and currency - it might be a bit cheaper - but really you get lots more with the extra pennys you spend on EWQL. The classical sound comes not from the samples but from the music written.

Even though EWQLSO is somewhat old it is still up to date because of the PLAY engine and the scripts behind.

I have been through the process of purchasing cheap old libraries just to realize I've been burnt and wished I've spent a couple of bucks extra. Of the old libraries there is still a couple of instruments and features I use, but really EWQL is the cheapest library that can do your music justice. Even though I have the platinum plus there really only is a small difference from Gold. I think it's mic position and bit depth. Bit depth which is overly exaggerated and for purely orchestral music in the classical domain, the stage mics are set up to the standard orchestral positioning, so you don't have to worry bout that, plus it comes with great impulse responses - which I don't use because of external reverb - but if you haven't got anything else, these are pretty pretty good!

With EWQL you can worry about music and orchestration instead of being annoyed by the sound of the samples. When I've done mock-ups with EWQL prior to recording I haven't been surprised by the real orchestra.

And lastly: EWQL is not my 'beloved'. I use a bunch of libraries together all the time, but with my work I can just see, that if I had to pick ONE orchestral library, I would pick EWQL - also taking the price into account. All the other stuff I use are instrument or section specific.

Miroslav IS woefully outdated. EWQL is honestly the best bet for your money. On a student discount you can get the Gold version for somewhere in the range of $300, and even if you're not a student, $600 is NOT a lot of money to be paying for a pretty decent library.

I'm not saying EWQL is the best library out there, because it isn't, but it is the best, and most versatile, entry level library you can get.

It also depends on what sound you're going for. Even VSL has its limitations, and isn't great if you're going for a big Hollywood sound (not to mention that if you don't know what you're doing production and programming wise, you'll end up with a completely awful sounding mockup). VSL has a smaller, more intimate and classical feel, whereas EW is a bit more broad. If you're JUST starting out on samples, Garritan is the next step down from EWQL, and is a decent beginner library.

First of all I apologize for not having answered any sooner. Admittedly, I am less on this forum as I would like to be because of my school assignments. Thank you all for your reactions. I think the choice fell on Garritan for the moment as I got a mail last week offering the sound library at 99.99 US$.

@ Andy: I am not say that 600 uS$ is much money for the package they offer, , yet I do not have them, not even the 300 US$. For the moment, I am on a very limited budget which even makes 300 US$ a lot of money. I do not want to go in detail as to the how and why, that is a personal thing, yet it makes choices somewhat difficult and certain things impossible for the next couple of years.

Thank you all,

WS

EWQL gold is 195$ for two days and silver is 120$

there's a free, non-trial edition of ewql out there somewhere. they were offering it for a limited time about a year ago for completing a survey, but i don't think that's still around.

Hehe, calm everybody!!

Lets not forget the true extensive library of freebies (which I use)

It's important for you to realise that in order to gain realism with ANY sample library, you'll have to use a DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) which offers so much more audio versatility.

http://www.tradebit....2006-for-win-xp little demo of EWQL from 2006 - not tooo good, but might be worth peeking at

http://freesf2.com/ - virtually every single really good soundfont has been bundled up in a little bow here, includes a lot of commercial demos and older files that disappeared. I use primarily stuff from this site

http://rekkerd.org/dsk-vsti/ - a nice little selection that's OKish, and worth having a look at

Kontakt 4's Free Edition

And as for free DAWs, there are very few that even qualify as a DAW. Ardouris really nice, but it's for Linux/Macs only. For Windows, there's LMMS, which I use(d). The free trial doesn't expire, so you can use it for free until you can find the spare cash (or not pay at all, but that's kinda cheap)

A quick note on the freebies though - if you want any sort of realism, it's exceptionally hard (probably impossible) to make a fast flowing battle track. http://www.youtube.c...&feature=search is the best I've heard made with freebies, and that's probably near the style you'd have to run for.

Hope this helps!!

reaper functions as a 'free' daw, i think the only restriction on the demo is a nag screen on bootup. even then it's really cheap at $60