caters Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 So I've been composing this orchestral march in the key of G minor and I know for certain that I will use a Picardy Third towards the end. It's really the C section and in particular the key of it that's getting me stuck. You see, when I was improvising this third theme, I moved to F# major using the Neopolitan chord of C minor, the Subdominant of G minor as the V of F# major. Then later on, I used the vii°7 of F# major to do a tritone axis modulation to C minor. Then this C minor was acting like a subdominant preparation for G minor by bringing back the intensity, perhaps even bringing the intensity to a peak. This is what I know will occur emotionally and instrumentally speaking: A - G minor - Intense march with a textural creschendo followed by a brass chorale without the trumpets B - Bb major - Triumphant trumpet fanfare harmonized by the other instruments, Rhythm comes back midway as preparation A' - G minor - Intense march again, but the textural creschendo happens sooner, also followed by a brass chorale C - F#(major or minor, I don't know yet) - Brass absent except for maybe some chords in the horns and trombones, Solemn emotion, more woodwind dominant(even including some woodwind solos) D - C minor - Intensity comes back and reaches its peak, apotheosis in full orchestra is reached, Prepares for the final entrance of G minor before the Picardy Third A'' - G minor - Intense march theme comes back, brass chorale gets prolonged as the Picardy Third happens B' - G major - Triumphant Fanfare theme comes back Coda - Triumph continues to the final chords As you can see, it isn't quite a typical rondo, as there are 2 sections in between A' and A'', but it isn't a typical sonata either because of what would amount to an incomplete exposition repeat(A' right after B but no B' until after A''). In either case, the C and D sections would essentially be the Development, emotionally, harmonically, and melodically developing previous motives from the A and B sections. So I think that this would be best described as an atypical sonata form. Anyway, for the solemn C section, should I use F# major or F# minor? As I said before, I'm using the Neopolitan of C minor as the V of F# for this modulation. I'm leaning against F# major for 3 main reasons, those being: In general, the more sharps or flats past 4, the harder it is for the orchestra. I've seen orchestral movements in Db major and B major(albeit rarely), but never F# major or it's enharmonic equivalent of Gb major For the Bb clarinet in particular, F# major would pose a challenge due to double sharps in the key signature But then again, I don't know if the tritone axis modulation to C minor via vii°7 would be as convincing if I used F# minor as it would be if I used F# major instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmm Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 I'm not entirely sure what you are asking... do you want us to decide what key you should write your piece in? That's your decision. 23 minutes ago, caters said: In general, the more sharps or flats past 4, the harder it is for the orchestra. Sounds like their problem, not yours. 23 minutes ago, caters said: I've seen orchestral movements in Db major and B major(albeit rarely), but never F# major or it's enharmonic equivalent of Gb major Then I'd say we're about due for one. However, from wikipedia: "F-sharp major is the key of the minuet in Haydn's "Farewell" Symphony, of Beethoven's Piano Sonata No. 24, Op. 78, of Chopin's Barcarolle, of Verdi's "Va, pensiero" from Nabucco, of Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2, of Mahler's unfinished Tenth Symphony, of Korngold's Symphony Op. 40, of Scriabin's Piano Sonata No. 4. The key was the favorite tonality of Olivier Messiaen, who used it repeatedly throughout his work to express his most exciting or transcendent moods, most notably in the Turangalîla-Symphonie." 24 minutes ago, caters said: For the Bb clarinet in particular, F# major would pose a challenge due to double sharps in the key signature You could just write the Bb clarinet in Ab instead of G#. Or use A clarinet, which would transpose to A. Also from wikipedia: "In writing music for transposing instruments in B♭ or E♭, it is preferable to use G-flat major rather than the F-sharp key signature. If F-sharp major must absolutely be used, one should take care that B♭ wind instruments be notated in A-flat major, rather than G-sharp major (or A instruments used instead, giving a transposed key of A major).[citation needed]"\ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-sharp_major#:~:text=F%2Dsharp%20major%20is%20the,Symphony%2C%20of%20Korngold's%20Symphony%20Op. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luis Hernández Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 If you are modulating from Gm to F#, what’s the relevance on the neapolitan chord of Cm? That chord Db is not related to nothing if you don’t complete the sequence. i understand this is a direct modulation using V of F#. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caters Posted July 12, 2020 Author Share Posted July 12, 2020 10 hours ago, Luis Hernández said: If you are modulating from Gm to F#, what’s the relevance on the neapolitan chord of Cm? That chord Db is not related to nothing if you don’t complete the sequence. i understand this is a direct modulation using V of F#. And V of F# is enharmonically equivalent to the Neopolitan chord of Cm, so when it first appears, it might sound like it is the Neopolitan chord of Cm given that G minor came before it, but then the move to F# would confirm that it is V of F#. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luis Hernández Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 17 hours ago, caters said: And V of F# is enharmonically equivalent to the Neopolitan chord of Cm, so when it first appears, it might sound like it is the Neopolitan chord of Cm given that G minor came before it, but then the move to F# would confirm that it is V of F#. I know that, But what is the relationship of C# or Db with Gm (the current tonality)? None. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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