Atonal oboe solo - need help with notation

I just wrote my first atonal/chromatic/modernistic (whatever you'd call it) piece for oboe.

- How is the notation?

- Are the accidentals readable enough?

- Title suggestions?

- I had a little faster tempo in mind, like eight = 220 but will it be too fast?

The Oboe range is good.  Just be careful ... the Oboist has to breathe!  The tempo is a bit crazy.😨

The mp3 link doesn't work.

Mark

24 minutes ago, MJFOBOE said:

The Oboe range is good.  Just be careful ... the Oboist has to breathe!  The tempo is a bit crazy.😨

The mp3 link doesn't work.

Mark

 

Thanks, Mark, for the quick reply!

It's nice to hear an oboist's views. I was thinking that would work out with the help of circular breathing, but maybe some pauses after a longer phrase would do it?
Is the tempo too fast for a professional player you think? In that case, too bad. Let me see if I can work my way around that...

Also, thanks for letting me know that the audio didn't work. I've fixed that now.

10 minutes ago, Olov said:

Thanks, Mark, for the quick reply!

It's nice to hear an oboist's views. I was thinking that would work out with the help of circular breathing, but maybe some pauses after a longer phrase would do it?

Is the tempo too fast for a professional player you think? In that case, too bad.
 

 

Not everyone does circular breathing ... at the tempo - it would be for a virtuoso to perform.  Some judicial spots to breathe in my opinion would be the best way.

26 minutes ago, MJFOBOE said:

Not everyone does circular breathing ... at the tempo - it would be for a virtuoso to perform.  Some judicial spots to breathe in my opinion would be the best way.

 

Added a little pauses between some passages and also widened the crescendo a little bit and changes notes here and there

I don't know why the audio is not playing back the articulations correctly but, oh well

I take back my original statement.  I did check with a metronome; however, after actually listening to the audio file ... it is quite playable and accessible to play.

It's a nice quirky piece which requires a bit more development.  Unless you see it an an etude.

Mark

1 minute ago, MJFOBOE said:

I take back my original statement.  I did check with a metronome; however, after actually listening to the audio file ... it is quite playable and accessible to play.

It's a nice quirky piece which requires a bit more development.  Unless you see it an an etude.

Mark

 

Cool! Yeah, I knew that seeing the number 200 would be overwhelming but I figured it would make more sense to write it by the eighth note than anything else.
Do you think it could be played just a little bit faster, because my original idea was just a tad bit faster.

Yeah, it is more of an etude I'd say. Just a short piece. Thanks for reviewing it. 

I'm sure somebody will mention how since you intend to consider this "atonal" then you can use any accidentals or enharmonic spellings you'd like to.  But I personally hear it as being in B so I would gravitate towards using sharps instead of flats in areas where the local tonality seems to imply B (major or minor doesn't matter because B is a key that implies the use of sharps).  There are places where it would make sense to use A#'s rather than Bb's imo (meas. 25 - 28), and F#'s rather than Gb's (meas. 9 and meas. 32).  One could also make the argument however, that you also sometimes imply Bb as the tonality which would be a good reason to use flats.  I thought that a good place to use a flat would've been the first G# in meas. 6 because of the voice leading (and also in the beginning of meas. 29).  I enjoyed the piece.  Thanks for sharing!

I also agree that the tempo actually seems pretty doable.  However, usually the tempo in 6/8, 9/8 or 12/8 meters is indicated as dotted quarter = ### (I think in this case it would be 220 divided by 3 which would be about 73).

I think you need to upload your score on musescore: https://musescore.com/user/login?destination=https%3A%2F%2Fmusescore.com%2Fupload. Reason is that there are more users and all of them musicians and composers (including people who uploads their own scores) and it gives you possibility to rate your music and to have professional feedback. 

I tend to write tonally if excessively chromatically so tend to use accidentals conventionally. My notation software offers an option of "second Viennese School" style in which every note is inflected. Atonal lies somewhere between chromatic and 12-tone serialism so I guess it's best to use accidentals to remove any ambiguity.

You've already had comment from MJFOBOE and PeterthePapercomPoser's wisdom on accidentals so I'll confine my comment to the music.

Atonal it is but it borders on the minimalistic style that carries with it a hint of tonal centre. (There were pauses in the audio file but that aside). It works well for its length. Intriguing and, as MJFOBOE says, would need a good player. 

I sometimes refer to Francis Routh's oboe compositions: like his Tragic Interludes and Oboe Quartet where he really exploits the oboe and uses a few techniques that sadly aren't available as audio samples*. Your work would sit well among such repertoire. 

.

* such as harmonics and single-note trills. 

12 hours ago, PeterthePapercomPoser said:

I'm sure somebody will mention how since you intend to consider this "atonal" then you can use any accidentals or enharmonic spellings you'd like to.  But I personally hear it as being in B so I would gravitate towards using sharps instead of flats in areas where the local tonality seems to imply B (major or minor doesn't matter because B is a key that implies the use of sharps).  There are places where it would make sense to use A#'s rather than Bb's imo (meas. 25 - 28), and F#'s rather than Gb's (meas. 9 and meas. 32).  One could also make the argument however, that you also sometimes imply Bb as the tonality which would be a good reason to use flats.  I thought that a good place to use a flat would've been the first G# in meas. 6 because of the voice leading (and also in the beginning of meas. 29).  I enjoyed the piece.  Thanks for sharing!

I also agree that the tempo actually seems pretty doable.  However, usually the tempo in 6/8, 9/8 or 12/8 meters is indicated as dotted quarter = ### (I think in this case it would be 220 divided by 3 which would be about 73).

 

Thank you very much Peter for the insights of key and accidentals - it made a lot of sense. I’ll definitely think of it because it will be more readable that way - having it as more fixed tonality.

Is it misleading to use the key of B or B minor as a key signature?

Or is it easier to read without a key signature - mainly using sharps for example. 

Also the tempo marking will be helpful. Good you pointed that out
 

7 hours ago, Patrick Hasselbank said:

I think you need to upload your score on musescore: https://musescore.com/user/login?destination=https%3A%2F%2Fmusescore.com%2Fupload. Reason is that there are more users and all of them musicians and composers (including people who uploads their own scores) and it gives you possibility to rate your music and to have professional feedback. 

 

I think I’ll stick to YC for now, mainly because I think Sibelius is a good software and I got all the help I need here. Maybe in the future. Thanks anyway for the tip!

5 hours ago, Quinn said:

I tend to write tonally if excessively chromatically so tend to use accidentals conventionally. My notation software offers an option of "second Viennese School" style in which every note is inflected. Atonal lies somewhere between chromatic and 12-tone serialism so I guess it's best to use accidentals to remove any ambiguity.

You've already had comment from MJFOBOE and PeterthePapercomPoser's wisdom on accidentals so I'll confine my comment to the music.

Atonal it is but it borders on the minimalistic style that carries with it a hint of tonal centre. (There were pauses in the audio file but that aside). It works well for its length. Intriguing and, as MJFOBOE says, would need a good player. 

I sometimes refer to Francis Routh's oboe compositions: like his Tragic Interludes and Oboe Quartet where he really exploits the oboe and uses a few techniques that sadly aren't available as audio samples*. Your work would sit well among such repertoire. 

.

* such as harmonics and single-note trills. 

 

I wasn’t expecting four people responding within 24 hours. Wow!

Thank you so much for your input. I will definitely go further with this composition. Too bad I couldn’t listen to the reference compositions mentioned.

I think maybe should remove the pauses because it makes the piece a little incoherent and I want the piece more fluent so maybe I’ll stick to the first version on the top

Hi

Fisrt of all: the piece is nice and I like it.

I just want to add something. I don't know if you have followed a series or dodecaphonic system or whatever. But regarding to the figures (motives), "classica" atonality is known for the irregularity of those ones. Here you have several repetitive and recognizable patterns...., that's not usual in atonality.

I don't have much to say - really quite nice. I would agree with Luis, perhaps more "semitonal" than atonal per se, but labels are arbitrary.

I wonder if it could do with more dynamics? The notes and articulations are so detailed, but perhaps lacking in the dynamics/expressive text department. Of course, your decision!

Thanks for sharing

aMC

8 hours ago, Olov said:

Is it misleading to use the key of B or B minor as a key signature?

Or is it easier to read without a key signature - mainly using sharps for example.

Well - I already mentioned how I would treat the various accidentals in their respective contexts.  I personally wouldn't use a key signature given that you sometimes also venture into Bb territory.

I really like this piece. It's challenging for a woodwind player as others have mentioned. Also, the issue of dynamics has been mentioned by others and introducing a bit of light and shade would be good. Overall though, it's lively and intriguing and a pleasure to  listen to.

8 minutes ago, Peter Quantick said:

I really like this piece. It's challenging for a woodwind player as others have mentioned. Also, the issue of dynamics has been mentioned by others and introducing a bit of light and shade would be good. Overall though, it's lively and intriguing and a pleasure to  listen to.

 

Cool! Thanks for the comment. Working on dynamics as we speak

On 9/1/2021 at 9:28 PM, aMusicComposer said:

I don't have much to say - really quite nice. I would agree with Luis, perhaps more "semitonal" than atonal per se, but labels are arbitrary.

I wonder if it could do with more dynamics? The notes and articulations are so detailed, but perhaps lacking in the dynamics/expressive text department. Of course, your decision!

Thanks for sharing

aMC

 

Nice! Thanks for the viewpoint. I also started putting some dynamics in there. I think it will work out fine with some crescendos.

Okay, guys. How about this?

Changes:

- Key and accidentals
- Dynamics
- Tempo
- Changes some notes
- Added a pause in m 19
- Score

I'm sorry that the software can't play back the crescendos correctly this time. I had to create lines to appear graphically but they don't function in the audio, so bare that in mind when listening...

Thanks for all your notation help and other input!
It is/was very helpful

Have a great weekend

It seems like you have switched to exclusively using sharps in this rendition which I did not intend to imply that you should do in my post.  I think there were many places where it was more intuitive and better looking when you used some Bb's but that's just me.

On 8/31/2021 at 11:12 PM, MJFOBOE said:

I take back my original statement.  I did check with a metronome; however, after actually listening to the audio file ... it is quite playable and accessible to play.

It's a nice quirky piece which requires a bit more development.  Unless you see it an an etude.

Mark

 

Hi again, Mark. I wonder if it's easier to read sharps or flats on oboe or does it have any difference?

It's a cool piece, the title fits it very well!

Some random thoughts:

1) You notated the opening motif as completely detached. Not sure if that's what you intend, in musical terms I think that would work better with some slurring (how much is up to you, you may just slur the first 2 notes, the whole 5 notes, etc.). Also, I'm hearing your audio as if it was slurred, some programs (such as Noteperformer) tend to slur detached passages if played extremely fast, because it's almost physically impossible to play them properly.

2) That new motif at measure 5 would be way more readable if notated in duplets (+staccato).

3) Those dashed lines in the crescendos are unnecessary, this is some old-fashioned practice that adds unnecessary clutter (you just know the crescendo will keep going on until the next dynamic).

4) You're asking about using sharps/flats. As a rule of thumb, try to choose those accidentals that tend to look similar to typical chords and tonal things. This is a very loose guideline, but try to avoid stuff like diminished 4ths, augmented 3rds, mixing flats and sharps that are in opposite sides of the circle of fifths, etc. E.g. if you write something that resembles an Ebm(maj7,9) chord, write it as such, not with Eb's but with A#'s.

cheers

As per your question ... whether sharps or flats are preferred by an oboist. Not really any difference ... however, lots of Band music is written in flats ... and 5 flats can be a slight pain the A =440!

Please remember it is also polite to comment on other people's work!