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Super compact Scherzo


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I know this isn't my usual style but it was pretty interesting to try composing something with a more Brahmsian vibe. ūüôā¬†The piece was dedicate to my friend @Ferran Carrasquer.
I'm not sure if the piece qualifies to be called a scherzo. What traits would you associate with that form? Also how would you expand my piece? I feel like I rushed it a bit and the final result is extremely short, but I'm not sure if I could add much more to section A for example, or how to add variety in the recap.

I hope you enjoy it!

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3 hours ago, Ivan1791 said:

I'm not sure if the piece qualifies to be called a scherzo. What traits would you associate with that form?

I think it does qualify as a scherzo!  A scherzo is like a fast minuet - so it's usually in triple meter.  The rhythm and feel is often quite fast and driven or sometimes lighthearted and playful.  One of the defining characteristics of a scherzo in the Romantic Era was, I think, to have sudden, unexpected and surprising changes in dynamics.  I think you probably don't go that far in this composition but you do have stately moments at higher volume that are then followed by a quiet respite.

I love the antispastic rhythms in this scherzo!  For your information an antispast is an iamb followed by a trochee in the list of metrical feet (I had to look this up specifically to better describe your piece!)  It gives your piece a very unusual hiccup-y feel and would be interesting to hear played even faster as maybe an encore.

4 hours ago, Ivan1791 said:

Also how would you expand my piece? I feel like I rushed it a bit and the final result is extremely short, but I'm not sure if I could add much more to section A for example, or how to add variety in the recap.

I think you could use ternary form for this.  Since Minuets were usually written in ternary form, scherzi I think follow in the same vein with a Scherzo - Trio - Scherzo kind of scheme.  The trio would usually be slower and not necessarily for three instruments, but you could totally try to emulate that kind of model when looking how to contrast your scherzo and bring it back in a recap.

Thanks for sharing this sprightly piece!  I surely enjoyed it.

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Hey Ivan,

8 hours ago, Ivan1791 said:

I know this isn't my usual style but it was pretty interesting to try composing something with a more Brahmsian vibe. ūüôā

As I've said in your YT channel I find this a nice change of style. Your pieces are usually more dreamy, but this one is more concrete with some Brahmsian touch especially his Scherzo movements.

8 hours ago, Ivan1791 said:

I'm not sure if the piece qualifies to be called a scherzo. What traits would you associate with that form? Also how would you expand my piece? I feel like I rushed it a bit and the final result is extremely short, but I'm not sure if I could add much more to section A for example, or how to add variety in the recap.

This of course qualifies as a Scherzo! Fore scherzo I try a scherzo and trio form before in my 1st Piano Sonata, a modified Scherzo and trio form with the 1st appearance in dominant key and reprise in tonic key in my 2nd String Quartet, and Sonata form in my 1st Clarinet Quintet, so there's no association haha!! For me the whole Scherzo right now just as the A section of it. You can just go for a scherzo and trio form in ABAC(Trio)ABA and add contrasting sections, for example D major brighter passages for the B sections, and than tonic major for the trio. For the variety issue it depends. For me a Scherzo can simply repeat without adding new things or modifying the details in it, but you may also go for voice exchange, recap in a wrong key like what Brahms did in many of his movements etc. The antispastic rhythm will be the one thing I will hold constant in all of your Scherzo sections. 

I really think of the Scherzo in Brahms's Piano Quintet. He's going for a ABCABCoda there, with the first B in C major and second B in Eb major, kind of reversing the key relationship in a normal sonata form.

Thx for sharing!

Henry

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On 9/20/2023 at 2:14 AM, PeterthePapercomPoser said:

I think it does qualify as a scherzo!  A scherzo is like a fast minuet - so it's usually in triple meter.  The rhythm and feel is often quite fast and driven or sometimes lighthearted and playful.  One of the defining characteristics of a scherzo in the Romantic Era was, I think, to have sudden, unexpected and surprising changes in dynamics.  I think you probably don't go that far in this composition but you do have stately moments at higher volume that are then followed by a quiet respite.

I love the antispastic rhythms in this scherzo!  For your information an antispast is an iamb followed by a trochee in the list of metrical feet (I had to look this up specifically to better describe your piece!)  It gives your piece a very unusual hiccup-y feel and would be interesting to hear played even faster as maybe an encore.

I think you could use ternary form for this.  Since Minuets were usually written in ternary form, scherzi I think follow in the same vein with a Scherzo - Trio - Scherzo kind of scheme.  The trio would usually be slower and not necessarily for three instruments, but you could totally try to emulate that kind of model when looking how to contrast your scherzo and bring it back in a recap.

Thanks for sharing this sprightly piece!  I surely enjoyed it.

 

Glad to hear so, I was insecure about this piece being too basic to be called anything haha. 

That's interesting, I had no idea that had a name, thank you for letting me know. I will recycle that rhythm for sure, and I picked it from Scriabin's 5th piano sonata, the theme A.

I will keep it in mind for future compositions, The trio/scherzo part of a sonata or symphony is what I have trained the least so all information is welcome.

You're welcome! (I took some time to reply because I had a surgery.)

On 9/20/2023 at 6:23 AM, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

Hey Ivan,

As I've said in your YT channel I find this a nice change of style. Your pieces are usually more dreamy, but this one is more concrete with some Brahmsian touch especially his Scherzo movements.

This of course qualifies as a Scherzo! Fore scherzo I try a scherzo and trio form before in my 1st Piano Sonata, a modified Scherzo and trio form with the 1st appearance in dominant key and reprise in tonic key in my 2nd String Quartet, and Sonata form in my 1st Clarinet Quintet, so there's no association haha!! For me the whole Scherzo right now just as the A section of it. You can just go for a scherzo and trio form in ABAC(Trio)ABA and add contrasting sections, for example D major brighter passages for the B sections, and than tonic major for the trio. For the variety issue it depends. For me a Scherzo can simply repeat without adding new things or modifying the details in it, but you may also go for voice exchange, recap in a wrong key like what Brahms did in many of his movements etc. The antispastic rhythm will be the one thing I will hold constant in all of your Scherzo sections. 

I really think of the Scherzo in Brahms's Piano Quintet. He's going for a ABCABCoda there, with the first B in C major and second B in Eb major, kind of reversing the key relationship in a normal sonata form.

Thx for sharing!

Henry

 

For sure, it is more grounded than my ethereal style. I actually love this strong romantic style and would like to experiment a bit more with it. 

Wow, I see you have worked a lot with the form already. The modifications done to a recap are an interesting topic, but it's quite difficult sometimes, I still need to make some experiments with it.

I love that quintet, I wanted to play it this year but it wasn't possible in the end.

You are welcome Henry! (I took some time to reply because I had a surgery.)

On 9/21/2023 at 5:37 PM, Luis Hern√°ndez said:

Hola...

 

I really liked this piece because it is both dreamy and high energy.

 

Thank you. What was the part that felt dreamy? Maybe the end of the first section? (I took some time to reply because I had a surgery.)

8 hours ago, PCC said:

a scherzo that knows how to be short too for the better (unlike what I usually have in mind, the overly long Schubertian ones...)

 

Glad to hear you think it is for the better. I still want to try composing longer works though, but I love condensing stuff and making pieces where each note matters.

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