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this is my untitled piece for piano its one of my proudest works, i would appreciate any feedback and suggestions for titles :D idk what to say, ive been working on it for a few months on and off... probably finished? maybe ill change some voicings and harmonies idk. dissonant greie.mp3 dissonant greie.pdf

Thank you for your feedback, @Thatguy v2.0! I'm familiar with Rautavaara and actually, on this topic, I suggested it, but thanks for citing that work :) I like Rautavaara. Apparently, many of the people who kindly commented on this piece say it somehow sounds like birds: you suggested a Concerto for Birds and Orchestra to me, so probably that is a common perspective. That's interesting since I didn't think of anything like that when I composed this piece. Also, thank you for your kind words—I'll share some of my pieces in the future and... aim to get the "Better than Thatguy badge" someday! Best, Lithl.

I have finished "The Occult" by Colin Wilson and have picked up the sequel "Beyond The Occult: Twenty Years' Research Into The Paranormal". Here is the very introduction that also delves into some discussion of music. Thanks for reading!

So, wanted to expand upon this a little further. In my original comment, I did not mention your use of independent voices, instead focusing on the engraving of the rests, which in the score's current state, are inconsistent when an instrument is resting. Some measures have a centered whole rest, while others have a whole rest aligned to the left of the measure. Not necessarily an independent voice issue, but a score presentation one. In my opinion, Debussy and mid -> late romantic composers are a good reference for using independent voices and keeping it feasible for the keyboard. With baroque notation, like the C-major fugue you referenced, it can be pretty strict with establishing the 4-voices the entire time and always notating when they rest or sound. However, over time, the rules relaxed and today we can see a variety of notation for multiple voices on the keyboard. The main thing is to be consistent with your use. Check out Debussy's Suite Bergamasque. This score video is really great to see 4-part writing expanded. He uses independent voices, blocked chords, interchanging voices and from an engraving standpoint, is really nice to see how flexible/ advanced keyboard notation can be. I played this set and the way the score is engraved really helped my learning. You can clearly see melodic ideas, texture placement and more.

Hi @Markus Boyd , I really like what you have so far. I like the minor key fugue at the beginning, the string entrance at around 0:45 in the major mode is a welcome contrast, then I really like how the texture thins out around 1:05. The buildup around 1:35 is also very effective, and the succeeding string melody and arpeggios are lovely. Keep it up!

Hi @Alex Weidmann , really great orchestration here! I thought your treatment of the voices was very good. And I really liked how you gave each instrument family (woodwinds, strings, brass) their own section, it really highlighted the piece’s overall structure. I think it would be a good idea to add the repeat, and maybe end with a more full tutti orchestration? That would give the ending more finality. Thanks for sharing!

Very nice @Luis Hernández ! The brass section is very energetic and exciting, and I really like the contrast when the strings come in around 0:37. A really nice short piece!

Yeah I think this was really interesting. For me I felt like it was really easy to distinguish the two parts, as my ear could effortlessly listen back and forth between them. It didn't feel like oil and water like a lot of bitonal stuff I've heard, but rather the two parts worked much better than what I anticipated. Very cool Peter, I'm interested to hear how all your studies acquiesce into larger works. Maybe something along the lines of blending two themes together at the end of a sonata or something.

Hey Lithl Very cool piece! For some reason your piece reminded me of this: Know the composer? This may help if you want to keep learning about a style with "tape" playback (or whatever avenue you use) mixed with instruments. Your piece is more abstract, but I'm sure they're parallel in some ways. I'm not too familiar with the style, but I'm always curious how more abstract music could be developed further. Thanks for sharing, and don't ever be bashful about posting something against the grain of what's here :)

Hallo Mason, now that the contest is over, I’d like to go through the feedback I’ve received over the next few days, analyze it a bit more thoroughly than I’ve been able to in the last weeks, and respond accordingly wherever I have some clarifications or comments. That „bracketing“ and the connected bar lines between the accordion and piano have already been mentioned by other reviewers (for example, @Kvothe ). Not to be too repetitive, that approach was intentional, since I considered my „special quintet“ as an „orchestra“ rather than a chamber ensemble—which, of course, may seem “strange” or “wrong”. However that consideration has sometimes been recognized by other reviewers as well: To avoid that unusual score order/grouping, perhaps it might indeed be the better decision to notate this piece as a “chamber music work“. However, in that case I have a different „headache“: In my piece, the piano part is not as prominent as usual in a piano quintet. Moreover, I would say, the accordion is somewhat more „the chief“, so should the accordion be placed at the very bottom, with the scores for the other instruments written in a smaller font size? No, of course not—the best compromise would be the traditional order you suggested (trumpet, guitar, cello, accordion, piano), but with all instruments in the same font size. Yes, I should use dynamic markings a bit more sparingly in the future. That exaggeration possibly results from the fact that I’ve been following the rule: “Never a hairpin without a dynamic marking at the beginning and end” (I’ve already discussed this in another thread). However, I think it’s feasible to take this “rule” seriously only when it seems appropriate, rather than applying it to every single note or short phrase. We already had „the pleasure“ of discussing whether „whole-bar rests“ (which are placed in the middle of the bar) should be used or not. And until now, I was convinced that those rests are used only when the entire instrument is silent, and not if only one hand of the piano or accordion, or one voice in a polyphonic score, has a rest for the entire measure. So I looked in the „Bible“ (i.e. the Welltempered Clavier, especially at fugues) to reconfirm my opinion ... ... – but I was proven wrong: Even there, “full-measure rests” are used, i.e., placed in the middle. So, I will now finally go to bury my „whole-note rests“ in 4/4 meter or my „dotted half-note rests“ in 3/4 time, and so on. Thank you very much. Yes, the fugato—and especially the moment when the trumpet played the main subject for the first time (without a mute)—was a lot of fun for me to compose. Unfortunately, however, I faced the “dilemma” of having to set two more stanzas of the poem to music. As a result, I had to shorten the development sections of the fugato and resolve the tension to make way for the more contemplative mood of the “sung lines of the poem.” After the poem ended, I wondered whether I should now let the fugato pick up speed again and develop it fully, perhaps with a climax of strettos and a pedal point. But this approach seemed to me to make the piece a bit too long, so I recapitulated the first section in a more melancholic manner, bringing the „arch of tension“ rather down than to a triumphant finale.

Hello A lovely piece. One of the key lessons I took away from this ESSENTIAL book by Persichetti is that if you use a system – that is, if you are consistent with a musical organisation, whatever that may be – the result depends solely on each individual’s skill and artistry, just as it would if you were composing tonal music. I think it’s a great decision here to have divided the timbres for each mode-scale. As well as the different registers. The fact that each part has been harmonised in thirds and sixths gives it a very familiar smoothness (common in tonal music). Yet these modes lend themselves perfectly to fourth-based harmony.

Very nice fluttering texture in the woodwind section, and I enjoyed your key changes. Looks promising so far!

Hey Peter! In fact I find it really melodious even it’s bitonal. The canonic imitation doesn’t sound mechanical to me, which is good job. In fact I’m going to use some bitonal treatment of your theme in my new work working so stay tuned haha. Henry

I've taken to another exercise from Chapter 8 of Persichetti's "20th Century Harmony" - "Compound and Mirror Harmony". This time I've chosen Exercise 7 - "Move a chamber group through several mirror chords where the reflective harmony is generated by the same tone and by different tones." In this case he is referring to using symmetrically invertible scales just like in Exercise 8 which I already did. In that exercise I built the respective mirror scales on the same tone (C) so in this exercise I sought to build the mirror scales on different tones only. I also created an inverted canon at a 10th and a quarter note between the Oboes and Bassoons. I used the following chart from the book to simplify the exercise for myself (so I used E Mixolydian in the Oboes and C Aeolian in the Bassoons). At one point I switch the Oboes to Ionian and Bassoons to Phrygian, just like in Exercise 8, but this isn't accompanied by key signature changes. Thanks for reading and for listening! I would appreciate any of your suggestions, comments, critiques or observations! Persichetti Exercise 8 - 7.mp3 Persichetti Exercise 8 - 7.pdf

Thank you. It's the sound of blowing wind. Each sound was resampled. The train tracks were the bass drum, but I didn't think to make it punchy. Fun note, the wolf howls are the same material of sound as the bell. The wolf howls were made by manipulating the bell sound into a howl.

Ok very interesting, because I see and hear 2 key signatures played against each other. But the different key signatures themselves are "in key". I suppose this naturally gives us 2 different harmonies without having to manage accidentals. Interesting concept, and at times this sounded a bit like Ravel. Fun rhythms, and for an exercise this sounds like it could be a nice little standalone piece, maybe a prelude, or some type of introduction to a larger work.

Yes, Lontano, but really all of her albums are great. I was first taken in by her playing on the album Gurdjieff & Tsabropoulos: Chamber music.

Thank you, @Henry Ng Tsz Kiu, for your review :) Gothic scene, that's interesting. I've never thought about it. And your idea about the cello is nice—that's going to be a good one. Actually, I always intend to use extended techniques for string instruments, but I do not know how to play them in the DAW / software realistically. Is having someone play them the only way to get those extended techniques, after all? 😕 Anyway, thanks again, Henry! Best, Lithl.

Hi, thank you for your feedback, @Brs. Your point about the cello's contribution is actually what I was concerned about. However, I followed my first idea and created a track. Next time, I plan to elaborate on it more. And above all, thank you for introducing me to Anja Lechner!! I really appreciate it and immediately loved it. Searching for it, the video features the album called Lontano from ECM by Anja Lechner, right? I'm listening to that, and it's such beautiful playing and a beautiful piece. Again, thank you so much :) Best, Lithl.

Thanks I will think how to modulate and cadence to next key Thanks for response :)

Thanks for the response I will definitely look into your examples :) (And the repetition I can remove it like not fit Right)

Great topic, @Grant Weep ! I am sure that @Henry Ng Tsz Kiu will be able to contribute to this topic given as how he always says that he writes his music over long periods of time. My Variations on "Deck the Halls" for Piano and Orchestra I started writing the beginning of and the 1st and Rondo Variation back in the late 2000's and only finished it more recently in about 2023 I think. So about 15 years. And there are other old works that I have access to that I am in the process of finishing and publishing thanks to the fact that I can open all my old project files with Cakewalk Sonar DAW. Thanks for your idea for this topic!

Hello @Martynas123, this prelude is really a pleasant, short piece. Although there is nothing wrong with a „simple piece“, I have some suggestions which could perhaps improve it somewhat further: The time signature. I don’t think that this piece is in 6/4 meter. Even though this time signature matches the number of notes played in a measure, there is no pulse that counts from 1 to 6 (with the exception of the last two bars). There are clearly four beats to be counted in the left hand. Therefore, the prelude should be in 4/4 meter, and the texture of the right hand could be rearranged into four groups of three notes each as triplets. With that done, you could get rid of the dotted quarter notes in the left hand (which look a bit unusual). Otherwise, you could recall the time signature as 12/8 (again with four groups of three notes in the right hand) retaining the dotted quarter notes in the left. And there is another „funny“ possibility that has been used by J.S. Bach in its Prelude 15 of the Welltempered Clavier, Book 1, BWV 860: Different time signatures in the right and left hand (admittedly very unusual but solving the problem): You could use 12/8 in the right hand (four groups of three eights notes) and 4/4 in the left hand. Here is the example from Bach’s prelude (he uses 24/16 in the right hand due to its use of semiquavers). The repetitions and the ending. At the ending (the two last measures), the piece leaves its uniform texture with the „triplets“, slowing down at (yes here) six beats per measure. I would like to have a somewhat „more elaborated“ finale, perhaps with the slow-down to a desceptive cadence, another one or two bars of improvisation with, again, the eights notes pulse, before the piece finally finishs. Typical examples of such an ending can be found in the Prelude 1, BWV 846: or somewhat more complicated in the Prelude 5, BWV 851: And now, finally, regarding the repeats: I generally wouldn’t include the ending—and especially not after an extension such as the one suggested above—in a repetition. Perhaps you could omit the repetition of the second part entirely—though that would result in a shorter piece.

Hello @PeterthePapercomPoser, this next Persichetti exercise was again a great fun. I just had to checkout what „symmetrically invertable scale“ means. Yes, it is indeed the case that the pairs you’ve chosen share the same order of whole-tone steps and half-tone steps between the different scale degrees, the one in normal order and the other one in reverse one! C Mixolydian: C 1 D 1 E ½ F 1 G 1 A ½ Bb 1 C C Aeolian (aka C natural minor) - reversed C 1 Bb 1 Ab ½ G 1 F 1 Eb ½ D 1 C C Ionian (aka C major) C 1 D 1 E ½ F 1 G 1 A 1 B ½ C C Phrygian – reversed C 1 Bb 1 Ab ½ G 1 F 1 Eb 1 Db ½ C Another thing is mirroring, that is whenever the left hand plays the melody/chords upwards, the right hand does the exact opposite. At some points, you have made some exceptions from the strong mirroring, introducing octave-wise steps or leaps which is – in my opinion – absolute correct and does not violate the intention of the prompt, but rather is a good device to make „an actual piece of music rather than an exercise“. Having different key signatures in the right and left hand scores is surely unusual, but makes the score looking very interesting, together with the meter changes, applying the odd one 5/4. How does it sound? Modern, ethereal, but pleasant and by no means “too atonal.” I can’t imagine this kind of exercise being expanded into a piece—say—7 minutes long. But I’d very much like to see passages based on this idea in a “real” piece of music, such as a prelude, combined with passages featuring more functional harmony and a texture that differs between the two hands to create variety. Thanks for sharing—it’s a very humorous and at the same time profound exercise, and perhaps an inspiration for one of my next pieces.