Leaderboard

Thinking, "I should write a theme first and then a contrasting one," is exactly the sort of thinking about form that he is discussing. You sound like you are well on your way to thinking about the large scale issues with a piece, rather than just writing note by note. It sounds like he's talking about how beginning composers just sort of work from one note to the next without any rhyme or reason. There may be no theme at all, just a random succession of notes that they liked for five minutes straight. Everyone works one note to the next, but the more experience you have, the more you'll be thinking ahead about how to organize yourself in the choosing of those notes. Thinking, I have a fast section, so next I should have a slow one for contrast... that sort of thing. Or, I'm going to have range issues if I give this bit to that instrument without modulating. Do I want to modulate, or do I want to give it to a different instrument... And he wants to suggest some simpler exercises to get you started thinking about these sorts of things before you decide to write a whole symphony. Use fewer instruments. Write a short theme and see if you can turn it upside down. Practice writing a fugue. Also, Schoenberg is writing in a way that makes him sound like a big smarty pants so he can scare you into doing your homework, so don't be intimidated into a state of confusion, just do the exercises. (My best guess at what he was going for at any rate).

Even though my application is still under development, the idea is that Music Jotter can translate the AI text notation from ChatGPT or Gemini to actual notes. This saves the end user the pain of having to notate the AI's response output manually. As far as I know, there are no other tools that can do this at the moment. So you literally are at the only place that can give you somewhat of what you are asking for. The problem, is that ChatGPT and Gemini are not trained on classical music, they are all purpose llms. I would love nothing more than to develop my own llm down the line, and train it on Chopin, Mozart, Beethoven, and other music, but hey, maybe if I can convince some AI investors down the line that we need this technology, this can be doable! But as of this moment, you can describe music and get textual output (even fun chord progressions!), where Music Jotter will convert that textual output into playback sheet music. My latest 2 videos on my channel are dedicated to this.

Hello @schedevrant and welcome to the forum! I am not too familiar with chatgpt, deepseek, or grok or any other AI tools for that matter.. but the owner of this forum @chopin is developing a notation software called Music Jotter that is able to take data generated by AI tools and create music. He's showed off the capabilities of AI tools and Music Jotter and what they can do on his YouTube channel - Can ChatGPT compose like Chopin? From what I understand, since ChatGPT and Gemini can understand midi data you feed it and output midi data - you can import it into notation programs and see the notes etc. That's just my understanding of the AI capabilities though. Can you maybe talk more about the difficulties you encountered in realising midi data output from AI tools and opening them in Musescore or other notation programs? They can export their files as midi even if PDF, jpg or mp3 isn't a format that ChatGPT understands, right? And thanks for asking! I'm sure many people will find this topic useful. And hopefully some of what I said will be helpful!

Lately, I've been thinking and imagining how Ancient Greece was reinterpreted in Impressionism. And well, all of that inspired me to write something. The dawn is that moment before sunrise when there is already light. For a brief explanation of what resources I use: Aurora

After riveted discussion with my wife, a lawyer, I have come upon what I believe should be the "final word" on the Copyright issues some members tend to bring up when we're talking about arrangements of music. Feel free to refer back to this thread or link to it if someone poses the question of, "Are you sure it's legal?" when you are presented with an opportunity to arrange music as a composer. Any original work under copyright is simply known as the original work. If you arrange a work that has copyright protection, you are creating a derivative work. Without permission from the creator of the original work, creating a derivative work of the original work under U.S. copyright laws is illegal - with some exceptions. An important exception for composers to understand is the "Fair Use" exception. Here is the general gist of the exception. The essential question of the Fair Use exception is whether or not the derivative work you've written occupies a substitute market, affecting the "market share" of the original creator. If a substitute market exists for the work you have written and you are profiting from that market, you are in violation of copyright if you do not have the permission of the holder of copyright. This is a great explanation of Fair Use of copyright works. So, if you're a student composer, a teacher, or generally a composer who is approached to write an arrangement of music under copyright, consider the purpose of the work (is this for commercial or non-profit purposes?), the nature of the copyrighted work (is this a popular song heard on the radio being arranged for your high school band?), how much of the music you plan to use (are you writing a medley or suite?), and will your arrangement impact the market for which the original work was written? Here are some examples where copyright has been infringed, where "Fair Use" has been rejected. If I find others, I'll post them as an addendum to this. A Junior Community College ensemble and its director re-arranged a choral work written for educational purposes, performed it once, and 47 copies of the performance were made for each member of the college choir. This was held as infringement because the choral work was written for the educational market and the composer relied on the royalties from the performance of the work as a source of his income. A music publishing company filed a suit against the A&E network over its use of 12 seconds of the song, "Rocky Top." The Middle District of Tennessee ruled that the use by the network was not fair use, but details are sketchy since the case was settled and none of the details were released. The point of this is to shed some light on an issue that otherwise leaves us cowering in the shadow of ignorance, fear, and paranoia. I'll try to keep updating this as I come across other cases, if only to help the rest of the community here. As the quoted portion from the U.S. Copyright Office website above, I also advise that in the event of any doubt, you should consult an attorney.

Here is my entry for this year's Christmas Music Event! It's not really a Christmas piece, but it is about snow and winter, and it does have quotes from a Christmas carol. It's the first thing that popped out of my mind in the 1st of December when I started writing the piece. The story/idea behind this piece was supposed to be a person's imagination of what it's like to have snow on their town in December since they live in another part of the world that isn't snowing. It was originally titled "It's snowing somewhere else" (still a good title in my opinion). But the piece felt like it showed a little bit more on the rhythmical side, so I changed the title to that. Score is now available! New title by Thatguy v2.0 (old title: Snow Dance) Hope y'all enjoy the piece and Happy Holidays!

Interesting mixture of styles you have here Henry. On paper it shouldn't work; but I think you've pulled it off! Especially like the bluesy section. The lefthand figure from Chopin's Revolutionary Study made me laugh, because I once used that ostinato years ago for one of my own works.

@PeterthePapercomPoser hey! Thank you for the reply. I've watched the video, it's great and I'm looking forward to using apps of that sort to help create... such a good idea! With AI(s), however, as far as I know, the only way they are able to understand music is if you provide it described in words, like in the video, each touch and each little detail (then it imagines what it would look like in music form, but the notes themselves leave it overwhelmed). It doesn't see midi (at least from what I've tried) or any other format. And rewriting everything in word form seems like it would be tiring, especially in the future, where the exercises get more complex.

Thanks for the tip! I’m working on a slower segment at the moment

Much to my wholehearted agreement, you already pointed this out in your review of my other dodecaphonic canon: "Although I have read from Taruskin's Music History book that counterpoint without tonality would be not too meaningful without the rules for dissonances and its resolution, but it is clearly not correct here. Given your ultimate care for preventing clashing dissonances, I find this one actually quite melodious and even tonal, or at least pan-tonal." In any case I don't find Taruskin's assessment entirely correct, just as you pointed out, since care for the clashing and resolution of dissonances need not necessarily be strictly derived from the rules of tonality, but instead out of the composer's own stylistic preference. One of the greatest things I have thus far found true for the dodecaphonic tone row system is that it allows for an immense amount of diversity when it comes to compositional approaches, which is specially true for stylistic notions of what works and doesn't in any given work according to the composer's own intrinsic judgement. In many regards I believe my usage and deployment of contrapuntal techniques to be the polar opposite of Schönberg's in terms of the treatment of dissonance, as in coining the term "emancipation of dissonance" so as to refer to his own proclivity towards unprepared and unresolved dissonances he was so proudly fond of, I believe he essentially stopped hearing dissonances as "ill-sounding" or unpleasant to the ear. For better or worse, my own particular stylistic preferences remain fairly attached to the etymologically quintessential definition of dissonance I just provided, independent of a tonal context. As such, my reticence towards unsing certain intervals has little to do with the standards conventions of tonal preparations and resolutions thereof, but with my own tendency towards finding intervals like minor 2nds and major 7ths quite distasteful to hear in clashing (though slightly more toolerable in suspensions), and also difficult to handle contrapuntally with my current bare-bones approach towards the general treatment of tone rows in my latest canons.

@Artdreamer77 The user edited out his content so the conversation has holes. The user also changed the name of the topic to ".". I am going to close this topic to further replies.

Hi Luis, I've become very interested in music from Antiquity, like the Seikilos Epitaph, and Hurrian Hymn to Nikkal. I like the effort you've gone to here with retuning your scale. Octave species used in ancient music seems to be a very rich subject I've yet to fully understand! I sometimes wish film composers would employ the techniques you've used here, so they can create a more authentic musical language to reflect the ancient world. Seikilos epitaph Seikilos stele with poetry and musical notation Type Stele Material Marble Writing Koine Greek Created c. 1st or 2nd century AD, Tralles, Asia Minor Discovered 1883 Discovered by W. M. Ramsay Present location National Museum of Denmark

I recently bought Fundamentals of Musical Composition by Arnold Schoenberg and I am excited to be reading it as it is the first real reading I am doing on musical composition. In the first chapter he writes the following: "A composer does not, of course, add bit by bit, as a child does in building with wooden blocks. He conceives the entire composition as a spontaneous vision. Then he proceeds, like Michelangelo who chiselled his Moses out of the marble without sketches, complete in every detail, thus directly forming his material. "No beginner is capable of envisaging a composition in its entirety; hence he must proceed gradually, from the simpler to the more complex. Simplified practice forms, which do not always correspond to art forms, help a student acquire a sense of form and a knowledge of the essentials of construction. It will be useful to start by building musical blocks and connecting them intelligently." My question is how a composer can in their vision of the composition, imagine the entirety of the form before composing even a single motive. Sure, before beginning a composition, the composer feels the ineffable essence of what they wish to express in their composition, but the form is part of that too? I was surprised to read that a composer does not add bit by bit, since it seems natural to compose by writing a theme, and then a contrasting one. I have not, though, had much success doing so, so I guess I must begin small and internalize form as a begin composing small forms for practice. I may be misunderstanding something, but reading this seemed like a reality check that I was thinking of form wrong as a composer. Or maybe this "spontaneous vision" of the form is something only the greatest of the great composers can master. I don't know; I'm a beginner.

Frankly, I would not take anything Arnie said seriously and would toss his book in the trash, where his "music" belongs as well. Perhaps set fire to it. It is also blatantly false when he says that "No beginner is capable of envisaging a composition in its entirety". Of course they can. Even laypeople can. They are capable of "envisaging" it, but that is different from "realizing" it entirely. The truth is that even if you plan out a structure or form from the get go, pieces tend to undergo metamorphosis as you actually work on them. The music reveals things to you that may not have come to you while you "envisaged" it and every piece is different. On some, you might have thought of a form you want beforehand and you wind up following it exactly. On others, you might realize partway through that actually, it would better if this "B" section didn't repeat after all and you have a better idea. And yes, it can even unfurl like a tapestry on a one-note-to-the-next basis. As an example, on my last album, some pieces I had a very clear picture of how they would be laid out before I even sat down to work on them. But on others, I did not. On one track I wrote, all I knew for certain was that I wanted it to start with some soft horns, and end with a big march that fades out into percussion similar to "The Flag Parade" by John Williams. I wound up having to change the ending because the company I wrote the album for required every track to end on a hit, but everything between the intro and ending was up in the air. It wound being the most popular and best-selling piece on the album — and is also my favorite piece on it.

A great work (movement). The shift from romantic to jazz language is quite surprising, but I think that transition is very natural and adds a lot of value. You don't notice that it moves from one place to another, musically speaking.

I've actually been thinking about this a lot lately. I was studying the film scores and other orchestral recordings of the '90s in particular and trying to figure out, aside from things like tape, what made them sound the way they do. In researching it, I found that in the way it was recorded, mostly owing to technology of the time, is that the stereo field actually has a strong center. I don't think one gets the best results by trying to pan the orchestra precisely to where they would sit in real life, because it creates an image that is just too wide for a stereo recording. Which is a 2 dimensional thing, unlike the 3D sound you would experience if you were actually seated in a hall. It's like bass. As you mentioned, the low strings being off center feels wrong on a recording. I usually use a mono summing plugin to put the basses right in the middle. That's not "realistic", but it's what works for a recording. What you can do, is pan the orchestra basically according to its seating, but then use a mono plugin to slightly reduce the overall stere field by around 15% or so. You can still tell that the instruments are panned, but they all have more of a center image than they do "out of the box".

Hey @Henry Ng Tsz Kiu! I just thought I'd have another go at some random impressions to your random sounding 3rd movement! LoL I feel like measures 8 - 10 should be more different sounding rhythmically from 11 - 12. Right now they sound really similar even though the rhythms are clearly supposed to be different, which I think is just a result of your lazy right hand! LoL The chord in measures 16 - 18 sound really muddy and thick in the bass range (which is very Beethovenian of you!). I am not a particular fan of that aspect of both yours and Beethoven's music though. I like the confused allusion you make at measure 20 to one of the other movements of this sonata (I don't remember which right now and I'm too lazy to check LoL). It does really sound strange and confused like the music momentarily doesn't know where it's going. I like how you invert the main Allegro theme in the bass in measure 29. Cool canonic imitation! I thought the transition at measure 38 could have been milked further for a longer amount of time to give a more complete sense of transition (especially since you had just finished a 12 bar phrase and keeping the number of bars even numbered in each phrase might have been more appropriate here). I like the transition to a Revolutionary Etude style of accompaniment in measure 39! But in your favorite key of C# minor instead of C minor as in Chopin's piece, which I think makes it a little bit more difficult to play. Nice Locrian inflection at bar 47 which also seems like an allusion to the Revolutionary Etude since Chopin kind of does the same thing with the harmony at a certain place. I like how you gradually foreshadow the Nihilistically Scherzando section in the crazy part (63 - 71). I totally neglected to realize and mention how the Scherzando is both a 12-bar blues and includes a melody from somewhere before interweaving in between the crazy dotted rhythms! The constant juxtapositions between quick Allegro Agitato phrases and slow Adagio question-like phrase derived from another movement are really musically interesting and dramatic! I don't really feel like the transition at measure 183 does a good job at preparing the listener for the beautiful sweet appassionato melody you expose in the next bar (which I know is another quote of a melody from one of the other movements but I don't know which LoL). Nice canonic alternation between the right and left hand playing the melody in the appassionato section. I know you consider bars 221 - 241 as the most impressive part of this movement, but I don't really like it that much personally. I know it must have been difficult to play and it's a great technical feat to be able to execute! But musically it just doesn't do it for me LoL. I like how the recapitulation creates another juxtaposition between the crazy 12-bar blues material and the Adagio allusion. Are the pentatonic scales the quote of your Sextet? I think it's note entirely out of place in this piece. Nice ending - it sounds quite conclusively finished after a monumental work. Bravo! Thanks for sharing!

ok promised I'd c+p lol

Great work @Fugax Contrapunctus, counterpoint master 🙂 You set a nice drama mood here not devoid of hope as I feel it. Would be a great opening - though rather short - for a larger, epic opus. Thanks 🙂

Hi @Fugax Contrapunctus I loved this work ; this is both a cool technical exercise and a well written theme 🙂 Thanks for sharing

Hey @Krisp! Sorry for a very belated review. I only remember to review this wonderful piece of music until I see your name on the member list! I love the 5/8 time signature very much, in a sense an omen to signify the premature death of the poet with the rushing rhythm., but also well fit to the poem’s subject of chasing a girl! Your modulation is always wonderful, I love your modulation in b.30 to F sharp minor very much, reminds me a lot of Schubert and Schumann. The 2nd stanza begins will a mellow E major and a soft tone of your voice, matching very well to portray to girl’s beauty. And the hunger for sex is really showed in the next stanza with those forceful chord, signifying the uncontrollable Id and Libido. The cool down and then arousal of sex desire, then the breakdown is so fascinating. Your music is always full of content. I can’t imagine in just 2 minutes you already told us a great poem with all those dramas and structure. Very fascinating to listen to, and thx always for your sharing! Henry

Hi Pabio @Fugax Contrapunctus! I love the unsettling mood here and how you use all four forms of the tone rows! I like Peter like the piano version more but this one is not your fault, as I always don’t like MuseScore’s Strings sound with those weird portamentos. I love your Bergian and Wozzeckian major ending for sure! Just one thing which lingers in my mind when I was reading sections on Serialism and Schönberg using atonal language for counterpoint and which Taruskin the author pointed out: The rules of counterpoint is maintained very much by the preparation and resolution of dissonance, but in a post tonal context there’s much less differentiation between consonance and dissonance, so the counterpoint rule may be weakened or even non-existent and meaningless. What do you think Pabio? Henry

A religious motet I began writing this afternoon and have finished composing in under five hours. I didn't initially think of the text when I first started, as is usually customary for me, but instead found the rhythms suitable for the text afterwards, and as such, took it from the passage of the Vulgate where the crucifixion of Christ under the connivence of Pontius Pilatus is mentioned, and then added a a reference to His resurrection at the end. Admittedly, this motet would have been more suitable for Late Easter, but alas, I guess only now have I managed to compose anything of the sort. Enjoy! YouTube video link:

This is not a dance suite, but is made out of old pieces in my dance suite folder that didn't make the cut (back when I was writing into the sequencer). The 1st movement - Serenade - is a fast ternary form in Ab major. Originally it was meant to be a prelude to a dance suite. It is in 4/4. The 2nd movement - Lament - was originally meant to be a Courante, but it doesn't satisfy the requirements of the kind of dance that a Courante is meant to be (and it's in 2/4). This piece is in Ab minor and binary form. The 3rd movement - Intermezzo - was also conceived as a prelude to a dance suite. It is in F# major. It is in 4/4 and binary form. The 4th movement - Postlude - was originally meant to be an Allemande but ended up being too slow to be any kind of dance, even though it has some characteristics of an Allemande. It is in 4/4 and E major. The overall form is fast, slower, slower, and even slower. Let me know what you think! I appreciate any of your constructive comments, suggestions or critiques!

Hello all! This is a Piano Quartet (Violin, Viola, Cello and Piano) I just finished which would probably not exist in it's current form if I hadn't found a Piano Quartet on this website. Originally I thought I would make this a solo violin and orchestra piece but found that this ensemble, once I was made aware of it, was the perfect match for my melodic material! I came up with the melodies for this piece as I was falling asleep. Luckily I keep a musical notepad next to my bed in just such a case. This is also my first attempt to write in sonata form although I'm sure I break quite a few rules if you'd like to point them out. I welcome your criticisms, suggestions or even just observations would be great. Hopefully this will be the first movement in a multi-movement work. Enjoy! EDIT: Thanks to some much needed advice from a discord server I recently joined I have transposed this piece (again) to the key of A minor (from the original key of G minor) which will be much easier for the strings to pull off some of those triple stops. If you'd like the score message me!