JaredTC

I've been writing a pretty large scale orchestral piece lately and I've come upon a section that I'm hoping to have some kind of 12/8 orchestral fugue(Inspired heavily by the double fugue preceding the famous "Ode To Joy" chorus in the final movement of Beethoven's 9th). Here I face two problems: Working out the counterpoint(which is in a minor to make things worse) and figuring out how to orchestrate it. How could one orchestrate counterpoint to avoid voices getting covered up or not blending well as well as keeping the limitations of each instrument in mind. Also, are extra chords not involved in the counterpoint acceptable? If so, how does one manage them and keep them from becoming overbearing against the moving contrapuntal lines?

I've been developing my own abilities in counterpoint for a while now, especially in Fugue writing. I've discovered that writing fugues in major keys is ridiculously easier than writing them in minor. I know why it is this way because of the more harmonically malleable nature of major keys and scales, but I'm trying to figure out how to get myself to point where writing fugues in minor is just as easy. What are some of the melodic, and harmonic techniques that would ease the unearthly pain that is minor fugue writing?

Now, if you as a composer do not wish to leave embellishments up for free interpretation, then it completely fine to dictate exactly how you want them played. That's a choice of your own. The good thing about published sheet music nowadays is that if there is an embellishment other than a basic trill in the music, editors will input small footnotes or notes on the margins showing one or more possible interpretations including their fingerings.

It's a good idea but a little too complex. Most performers even still at a learning level often have enough knowledge to interpret embellishments. As a keyboardist, it's a very natural thing to just see the symbol for an embellishment and to perform it without a second thought. I don't want to have to spend extra time reading letters to figure out an embellishment. Also, embellishments were born out of the improvisational styles of the Baroque and Classical periods, and so putting an exact way to interpret it would defeat their purpose. For example, many piano instructors often frown upon improvising on Bach, while Bach actually encouraged improvisation! He left it up to the performer to tastefully decide how to perform embellishments. Putting this kind of system in place would unfortunately take a key part of individual interpretation and musical expression out of music.

Looks fine to me! The only weird thing about it is the fact that the root is not doubled in the vi 5/3 chord at the end of the first measure. However, it cannot be changed in any way without having a parallel octave between the soprano and bass or a skip of a 4th(not recommended) in the alto, which I'm sure you're very aware of. So in this case, doubling the third of the vi 5/3 chord is completely fine and necessary. Also, be sure to keep all Roman numerals for minor chords in lowercase to indicate that they are, in fact, minor.

Does anybody else here listen to the music of E.S. Posthumus? I love their mixture of the styles of rock and world music with classical music. It just works extremely well. I'm considering adapting their style into my own music! Here's a couple examples of their music for those who haven't heard them before: Anumati: http://youtu.be/Pi3bg7W59wc Isfahan: http://youtu.be/F6pqdSVj_cw Caarano Pi: http://youtu.be/DY0tg_tdRXw Krosah: http://youtu.be/YUAULf3b8i0

I agree with all your favorites you've posted. Brahms' first Tsiolkovsky's first, but I don't agree with Mozart's 21st. I think his 21st is just a common general public favorite. It's the material of stereotypical classical masterpieces. Among these stereotypes are Beethoven moonlight sonata (1st mvt), Beethoven Fur Elise, and Mozart's Rondo alla Turca. Mozart's 21st just doesn't cut it. Sorry. :(

Well, I don't have any of these. I'm starting high-school next year at an arts school for piano. Since I'm doing that I will be taking music theory classes so high-school music theory it is! (Only for the moment! :toothygrin: ) I definitely plan to go to a great music college and get a masters degree in composition, piano, and conducting. Maybe even a doctorate! You never know until you know. :cool: -Jared

Nice list. Pretty good. Not much more to say about it I'm afraid.

I first started where every other American kid did in at that time. And no, it's not very impressive either. The first music I got into was Weird Al. Yeah, I'm not too proud of it. Then I started to get into classic rock from the 60s 70s and 80s. Then, one day my music teacher at school (A.K.A. my mom since I was home-schooled through elementary) played Tchaikovsky's 1812 overture. With that moment, I was admiring that piece constantly in my mind. I didn't want to say I loved like I really did because, well, all my rock loving buds would think "WHAT?!" Soon i heard more Tchaikovsky and began remembering when I loved Beethoven's 5th when I was just an infant. I then broadened my horizons, and I was off looking for new classical music to hear. Since my mom was a horn player during the 20th century there was no doubt she would introduce me to Mahler's music. With Mahler, I was hesitant at first, but I soon saw that Mahler was like Beethoven (Another favorite of mine) on steroids. LOL :laugh: The rest is pretty chaotic. One composer after another grabbed my interest. It's a long story. -Jared

Hmm... Orchestrating in my head for me is easy and a breeze. I don't know how I do it, but when I want a piece to be orchestral I just hum or think of the melody and POOF! I've got a full orchestra in my head playing out the piece. It's really weird when I realized that not many people can do that. And now that I think of it, I can hear not only strings but woodwinds, brass and even full percussion with timpani. I don't know how to teach some to do this though, that's my only problem with that. :veryunsure: -Jared

Hmm.... You asked if it would be good for a performance earlier. In my own opinion: No. But, it definitely could be. The reason this piece isn't suitable for a performance at the moment is because of the way you use the instruments. What I'm saying here is that you have written parts for certain instruments here that are hard, very difficult, and almost impossible to play by a real musician. I'll explain it all right here. OK. In the beginning of the symphony everything is very good. I might say that the second violins are going a little low in their range but it isn't something to worry about. Violins can easily play were you wrote them there, but be careful and don't go any lower than that or you'll be writing out of their playable range. Your first real problem starts on measure 14. The french horns suddenly hit that high C. When the music is displayed in concert pitch that not is an F. It might not seem high then, but when you later convert the piece out of concert pitch the notes of transposing instruments change to higher and sometimes lower notes. You go much higher than this High C in your piece here. I always try to avoid going any where higher than an E in concert pitch. Your horns are far too high here. You can lower the high notes you have there down an octave and they might be fine, but take some more in depth looks into the music to see if some notes are just too plain high or low. If you don't know the ranges of the instruments you can find plenty of websites with their ranges. The other problem is the timpani. It starts in measure 17 with an upward scale from F to B flat. A timpani can't hit every note you have along with all the other you have written down in the rest of the symphony. Also consider looking at the range of the timpani and always be careful with what you write. Also make sure that the Clarinets don't go too high as well. If you fix this up, maybe make the piece shorter or keep the length and make it a little more exciting than you may be fine for a performance. Even though you have these fixable problems throughout the symphony here, I am still impressed by the length you tackled here. P.S. If you cut the time down to make it shorter it could make a good slow 2nd movement to a larger symphony. Take this into consideration freely! -Jared

Thank you all for your comments and advice. I hope to revise the harmony and such at some point. Thank you Jared

Finally! here it is. My first symphony is now finished. After a little less than a year of work but only a couple months on the melodies that are included in the work. So here is the program:Allegro misterioso:of course, this movement is very mysterious but in the end triumphant. The movement starts with an intro that is influenced by Bruckner opening with tremolo strings and atmospheric brass. The next section of the intro is quite triumphant and also somewhat Brucknerish but with a touch of other composer's influence. The A section is an ominous fugue laying down the main minor melodies for the symphony, of which reoccurs many more times throughout. Then the slower and sweeter B section come around and only returns in the 3rd movement. The it returns to the A section but this time it is more developed. It then transitions back into the intro which now is an outro, and goes into it's triumphant finale.2.Adagio expressivoThis is the slower movement of the symphony and I believe this has the best chord voicing in the whole work. The A section is slow and caring. The B section is a very bored sounding and thoughtful sort of melody. The section repeats and then it D.C. al Fines back to the begging.3.Allegro con fuocoThis is the shortest and the darkest movement of the work. It starts with a more enlarged and tormented fugue melody from the first movement. It continues into a slow part also much like Bruckner. For only a moment it goes into another dark part but then back to a slow part. At this point, the first movement's B section returns, but for only a moment, before going into another and much more section full of torment. The movement ends with quiet pizz. violas, celli, and bassi. 4. Allegro con motoThis movement is wonderful in my opinion. It is mostly optimistic. A march starts it. It goes then into a slow section much like the second movement. Then, it rises up into the fugue melody again only to fade of to silence. Then, there is an only brass section. It goes right back into the fugue section, but this time, it resembles the fugue's second appearance in the first movement. It also fades away with pizz. this time and goes into a great happy sounding section. Then, into a slow theme that has never been heard in the symphony before, and it goes right back to the happy section. There is a key change right into the finale of it all and it ends wonderfully.Thank You for listening. Symphony No.1

Very very good. Once again. BRAVO!!