Piano Sonata G Major

First Movment of piano sonata :)

Midi:

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Pdf:

[ATTACH]10964[/ATTACH]

Mp3 Recording :

MySpace.com - SimenN - NO - Classical / Classical - www.myspace.com/simenn

Hope you like it! please comment :)

Well I like it. Has great form to it and VERY classical in style. You have obviously put a fair bit of work into it. I particularly liked the E minor section in the middle somewhere... Not sure about how you ended it though (repeating of G major chords) - maybe you could extend the coda a bit. If you can either make a performance recording of it (not 100% easy to play by the looks of it) or otherwise add dynamics to the midi it would sound even better.

Thanks! Yes the ending is not good, im glad you liked the e minor section, that is the best in the piece!

Well I love it. I too am not very erm sure about the ending, but I think its still alright. And, more that obviously, you certainly put quite abit of work in it.

Although u name this a sonata... but do you mean a three mvmt Allegro-Adante-Allegretto sonata or just one movement? I ask this since I can hear no distinct movements.

He said it was just the first movement in the first post...

Cool piece. I agree that the form was good, sounded like something right out of the 18th century.

You need to work on harmony - those fourths in the bass are completely un-idiomatic for classical writing. Lots of parallel octaves. In fact, far too much parallel motion in general - that's a bad thing, as it sounds like one big parallel voice. More contrary motion! I don't know what on earth happens at the start of bar 12. Also, I found too much literal repetition of things - like everything we heard we heard again straight away. This sometimes happens in music of this era, but certainly verbatim repeats do not occur in the good music.

The score is ugly - as if you played it into a notation programme. You need to clean this up. (knowledge of harmony will help with knowing which accidentals to use).

Still, it's a fine attempt - you've obviously absorbed some elements of the classic style. Practise makes perfect. (and of course learning a dead style is hard, because composers back then *knew* what not to do, and if they didn't, their teacher did - we no longer have that instinct, except by picking things up through the scores of the masters)

Well as i understand paralell octaves in classical music is not wrong, mozart did that a lot himself, i dont use finale or sibelius so that is why the score is ugly, i save as midi from fl and export score from finale, and the point in this is not counterpoint, its easy music, Tonic -Subdominant- Dominant -Tonic.

Octave doubling is not the same as parallel octaves. And too much parallel motion (which MOST of this piece is) is bad.

It doesn't matter if it's not a contrapuntal piece - parallel octaves still are bad, same as parallel fifths. Doubling at the octave is fine, as it's just the same as one voice.

So, your first 4 bars are fine, but bar 11 is bad, end of 5 bar to bar 6 is bad (B going to A in both hands), end of 20 to 21 not good (especially since both hands leap onto the E), the passage-work at 33 onwards contains some ugly parallel octave effects.

Even despite any parallel octaves, just parallel thirds get boring after a while! They're effective when used a little, but your entire piece is parallel motion.

Ohh to bad then :)

Much of the problem with this piece is not that it sounds "like mozart" but rather that there are enough harmony errors in it that are NOT typical of Mozart's work, nor of that period.

In the end, it just sounds like poorly executed pastiche.

I found that most of the parallel 8ves were disturbing (other than the obvious unison doublings), and came off as uninventive more than anything.

There are also a few spots where the harmony is just plain boring. The insistance on I - V - IV doesn't have the sweetness or innocence it could. It still requires a bit of extra "spice" for that.

In the end, it doesn't sound simple, it sounds simplistic.

All that aside, there are some very good melodic ideas, unfortunately, they just aren't developed in a really satisfying way.

Thanks QcC, could you give me some ideas of what to do to improve the errors?

I thought it sounded all nice and classic-y. I find that pretty boring (because Mozart on piano puts me to sleep super-fast), but hey, that's my opinion and if you wanted it to sound all classic-y, then you succeeded despite what these other people say of octaves and junk~

Thanks!

About octaves and fifths...

You do know that composers of the classical period did avoid parallel fifths and octaves, right? This has nothing to do with how in a symphony, two instruments might play the same melody in unison or an octave apart, or the left hand in a piano sonata might play a melody in octaves. That is called doubling and simply creates a new sound from two instruments.

But two independent melodies, like in the counterpoint you are writing, are most independent when they avoid parallel fifths and octaves. Of course composers were never too strict about this; there are examples of "illegal" parallels in all classical music, but composers only used them when they were sure there were no simple alternatives.

I recommend you try writing (just as an experiment) a few bars of music that very carefully avoid all parallels. This might help you get used to more contrary motion between the two voices. You will find that avoiding the parallels isn't really too hard and makes the music more interesting.

BUT then when you write a real piece of music, don't restrict yourself with rules. Use the parallels if you really think they are necessary. The experience from the short exercise will help you be more aware of the parallels and you can choose when to use them and when not to use them.

So basically, what I'm saying is that you can and should do whatever you think sounds best. But I think experimenting with avoiding parallels might help you become more aware and in control of your style.

But your average listener will most likely not notice or care about the parallels. I though the music was fairly nice! I hope my advice helps a bit.

So basically, what I'm saying is that you can and should do whatever you think sounds best. But I think experimenting with avoiding parallels might help you become more aware and in control of your style.

Well said.

Thanks Churchill, the octaves was ment to be there from my side, at the bars Daniel mentiond was ment to be in octaves, its no a problem for me to write it in 3rds but i wanted some of it to be in octaves, like the start that is for a reason, ( mozart did the same in eine kleine nachtmuzik) as in bar 11 the melody is in the bass line, bar 33, same thing the melody is in the bass, the right hand in those to parts are just arps of background melodies. The reason i use the octaves is because the double voice effect.

Please do show me any place in a Mozart piano sonata (or anything else) where Mozart has independent lines double at the octave for a couple of notes, but otherwise doesn't. (I.e., not just literal doubling, like the opening of K.570)

You can find Mozart's complete works online here (legally)

DME Mozart

Maybe if you see that Mozart doesn't do it, then you'll realize it IS bad in Classical style (and others).

k 283 presto, bar nr : 93 94 95 96

so you can compare the endings :

Mozart k 283 presto :

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Mine

[ATTACH]11009[/ATTACH]

mozart have paralell octaves 4 bars.

in mine i have 3 bars.

The Mozart example does not show incorrect parallel octaves - it shows a left hand doubling at the octave, which is FINE, and which is FINE in your left hand too. The problem is that your left hand accidentally ends up making parallel octaves with your right hand (which Mozart does not do).

page 56 : http://dme.mozarteum.at/DME/nma/nmapub_srch.php?l=2 bar 93 94 95 96

sonata g major k 283

well take a look again 94 F#

octave f sharp in bass f sharp in right hand

Parallel octaves means both hands move in parallel - the right hand is static, the left hand just happens to be doubling the F# for a crotchet's worth - there is no motion by parallel octave.

actualy in my section there no paralell with the right hand , its start with a double on Tonic, G , next note is a octave C with A in right hand, then next there is A G F#, on F# its hits with the right hand, just as mozart i hapends in the end of the melody, and then it comes a gain one octave deeper, there is notes between the paralell G ( double with right hand) C not with right hand, A G dissonance F# ( double with righthand, and then its start all over.

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yes and in my midi? are both my hands moving in octaves? no the right hand playes a melody and the left does

Listen, I'm not trying to get at you. No need to get worked up. I wouldn't bother if I didn't think saying this would help.

The ending is example is not the worst one, but the effect of parallel octaves is there. (and if you refuse to hear it, then at BEST it's full of parallel 9ths which is completely OUT in classical style).

I've marked the notes which cause the parallel effect to the ear.

A paralell octave in choarl mean, that if bass and tenor moves with a octave between its a paralell, so if the chord is SATB : E G C C an the next chord is C A F F and the next is G F H H next C G E C. All these are paralell, as in mozart B and T is double, as in mine.