Short Action Cue

So this is my first post. I'm a 15 year old high-school student. My instrument is classical piano. I've been composing pieces for a long time (started after a couple years of piano lessons); most of my recent work has been for film scoring.

This is one of those more recent pieces, made for a short war film. It starts off with fast-paced percussion rhythms and staccato strings. Gradually, it lightens up. In the final half, the main theme of the film comes back on the piano.

Here's the link:

ActionCue

I'd really appreciate any feedback you have, and am looking forward to meeting some other composers.

-Clarence

Nice piece. It certainly sounds very action-y and sounds like very typical movie music, which would be a good or bad thing depending on how you look at it. I thought the small flute solo (at least I think it was a flute) was a little strange and came in rather suddenly but again, awkward transitions in music can work when used with a movie. Overall, I thought the sound quality was pretty good but something about the percussions come off as a little artifical to me. I felt the transition into the piano section as well was rather sudden but it was my favorite section of the entire piece. I'm not entirely sure how such a rapid mood shift would work in a movie but eh...maybe I have no imagination. Anyway, this is good work for a 15 year old. It's always nice seeing composers just about my age around here and what sort of music they're composing. Even if in most cases, it makes me feel dreadfully inferior.

A turn off for a lot of new members around here is that they will post a work, not get much of a response (regardless of the quality of their music), then leave without every logging in again. The best way to combat this is to comment on other people's music first. It doesn't always work but I personally make it a point to comment on anyone's music who has commented on mine (provided they have music posted on here). But I digress...

Welcome to the forums! Hope you stick around.

Ummm...this is kind of amazing.

Sorry to be so blunt, but I really enjoyed it. Maybe because it screamed "THIS IS FILM MUSIC" and that makes it familiar but it sounded so cool. But if we get to the nitty gritty, some of the transitions are a little weird, but overall you had some nice (typical) orchestration, but it works. The flute part was kind of weird, but I really enjoyed the piano theme. I feel like it should be more legato, but thats just me. You can see there is real talent here. Keep it up!

Welcome to YC!! As Nirvana said, go around, comment on the works of others, be friendly, we are very welcoming here.

Have fun!!

Scott.

Fantastic! Would love to hear it recorded with all the "treatment".

Were you writing to picture? If "yes", did you have a rough sound mix to work with? Is it possible to upload the clip somewhere?

I'm imagining the sudden shift to flute might be to reflect what's happening on-screen. Aftermath with smoke rising from ruins? Lull in the fighting? Close-up of soldier's face as he thinks of ... would be very interested to see the finished article!!

:thumbsup:

The transitions are admittedly strange, especially the flute (I never liked the timing on it, but didn't feel like fixing it either). But underneath the the explosions and gunshots, I don't think it will prove to much of an issue.

Part of the reason the instrumentation is so ordinary is that I don't have a large sound set to work with (I'm using Logic 8). With Logic you've got your basic string samples, percussion/timpani, some decent brass, a few woodwinds...nothing too exotic. Of course I'd rather write the music within a notation program and have it played live with the whole complement of orchestral instruments, but playing directly into Logic is much more realistic for me. Hopefully I'll expand the sound library in the future.

Jada, I was not writing to picture (this piece was made as a favor, nothing professional) so I had no sound mix or images to work with.

Would love to hear it recorded with all the "treatment".

I assume you mean live? Or just with a better sound mix?

Thanks for the feedback and the warm welcome; I'll be sure to have a listen to other people's work and give my thoughts.

Would love to hear it recorded with all the "treatment".

I assume you mean live? Or just with a better sound mix?

Live would be great. In real life you'd possibly go with a mixture of sequenced/live, with the whole thing mixed by an experienced engineer. You'd have a midi mock-up to get the go-ahead from the director and other powers-that-be, then, depending on budget, you'd possibly overdub some live instruments where there'd be some sort of tangible benefit. Of course you want your music to sound as good as possible, but you particularly want that to be the case if there's any possibility of the soundtrack being released on CD or whatever ... without dialogue or sfx to cover musical shortcuts! Ditto if the music (alone, unsync'd) is going to be part of your portfolio.

For me, first cab off the rank would be cellos

First of all, I would like to thank you for commenting on my topic. I'd love to return the favor, but somehow your video doesn't load for me. All I get is two lines of text. Could you youtube it?

Here's a direct link to the file: http://homepage.mac.com/chchaisson/MassDestruction%20mp3.mp3

You need Quicktime to play it; maybe that's the problem?

Sounds pretty damn good IMO... especially if you are only 15! Liked the first half better. Yep, very "actiony".

In real life you'd possibly go with a mixture of sequenced/live, with the whole thing mixed by an experienced engineer. You'd have a midi mock-up to get the go-ahead from the director and other powers-that-be...

So the workflow would be something like:

- Write score by hand/In notation software

(notation software provides MIDI mockup)

- Take the more prominent instruments and record them live (strings, brass)

- Using MIDI, record the less prominent instruments (some percussion, woodwinds, keyboards) in DAW such as Logic and create an audio file from it.

- In DAW, combine the two elements and mix.

- Possibly send to sound engineer for further mastering.

Couldn't combining live and MIDI elements be a potential timing nightmare? How exactly do you line everything up?

I would first of all suggest giving the exotic flute a whole lot more reverb. This will help distinguish it further from the previous drums and brass. If you're going for a stark contrast, that is. Perhaps the screen shows a sudden flashback, and warrants the contrast. Reverb will also give it more character.

I love the crazy techo section preceding the piano part. I'm wondering if it really suits the wartime atmosphere, though. It's kind of rave-y - I'd suggest more acoustic snares and cymbals to perhaps better fit the film. I would kind of hear this in maybe an epic cop movie or a good old Mel Gibson movie. (Braveheart, Leathal Weapon, etc.) ;)

But overall it's a fine example of great action film music, and I think rates up with some of the professionals. Great work!

May I know what vsts did you make this with? They sound good but they need a lot more reverb. Everything sounds dry right now. Tune the reverb up a bit and it'll sound even better. The drums will be boomier, the piano sweeter, and the flute will have more presence.

On the piece: I thought the beginning was the best part. You made a really clean orchestration of it. Everything sounds in place. I love the right left right left panning of the side sticks. Those were well thought of. The cello(or double bass?), together with the percussion, really got the piece moving.

When the ethnic flute chimes in, it gives the piece a whole different feel and dimension. If it fits the movie, that's a good thing. The piano for me was also a nice touch.

Add some reverb, and you'll have a great piece!

Heya!

Overall I was impressed by the sound quality. It all sounds pretty good. Everything everyone else has said makes sense, the flute was weak and seemed to kinda limp along, I think some high strings accentuating it would work well along with bringing the flute up with some reverb.

My main crit would be it sounds very...film music cliche. I feel like I have heard it before.

But, for 15 this is darn good. I wish I started at that age! Keep up the good work, the more you experience in life, the more your music will find its identity.

Not sure what you mean when you say it sounds dry? Listening to it on my speakers, it sounds like it has plenty of reverb. I feel that if it has too much reverb, it won't have a certain "presence" in the soundtrack. But maybe you're right; I'll try adding some reverb and see how it sounds. Right now I have the Space Designer preset on "Sound Stage 12."

Nigel, the instruments were included with Logic, and I believe they're derived from the Apple Jampacks for Garageband (not top-notch quality). That's why I mention possibly getting some plug-ins (Vienna Symphonic, East West/Quantum Leap), because even with reverb, some of these samples still aren't convincing. There are certain areas in the string section I avoided using (the higher range) because they would start to sound electronic.

TheHarrowing: yeah, I was just going for a general action movie sound. I did not want to include any snare drums or other things associated with war films.

Heya, welcome to YC!

It's good to see another incidental music composer joining our ranks, so let me see if I can give you some useful feedback on this piece.

Your percussion is really nicely written, but the sounds of the actual drums sound horribly hollow, cheap, and artificial, and they just sort of mess up the authenticity of the rendering. With some clever audio editing, reverb, and EQ work, you can make the percussion track sound a bit more full, but as it is it's really problematic because it's noticeably worse-sounding than the rest of the mix.

Your strings are doing a nice formulaic action pattern, so there's not a whole lot worth saying about them besides the fact that they lack a certain individual presence, but that's more of an orchestration quibble than anything else and you needn't worry too much about it for now; you'll learn to use the orchestra more colourfully as you continue practising. The transition to the ethnic flute is really jarring though, and while the effect is nice in theory, it didn't really work well in practise (to my ears). This is largely because you had a nice pattern going and then you suddenly cut to the lower volume stuff with some louder stabs, which was nice, but then you just haphazardly threw in an unconvincing brass rip and suddenly you've jolted poor Mel Gibson from his action chase to a temple in Peru.

I think that the transition might work a bit better if you make the swell a LOT bigger (not necessarily longer-lasting, just louder and "larger") and then have a slight pause before the flute comes in. The pause will help smooth over the extremely abrupt and unexpected mood switch that you've got going on. The continuation with the percussion and the return of the strings is nice enough, but it's not until the piano comes in that my attention was really back on the music. The piano gives it a nice delicate touch and the fact that you slowly worked out the aggressive strings and percussion made for a MUCH more satisfying and convincing transition, so keep that in mind for future pieces.

I also found the ending to be a bit of a let-down, but it could be fixed easily enough by giving it some more presence: a little more finality.

Overall, this piece is a nice demonstration of the genre and you've managed to work in some variety in terms of mood; even if the actual transitions between sections didn't always work out too well. You're in the very important learning phase, so my suggestion to you is to keep writing and keep working on getting to know your software environment along with exploring new and more creative orchestration ideas. Don't be afraid to test your ensemble. They're digital, they don't mind. ;)

Thanks for sharing and welcome again! :thumbsup:

Clark – I'll have a detailed reply to your question: "So the workflow would be something like..." but it'll have to wait half a day or so.

In the meantime, some other folk here may fill you in on recording logistics. The good news: it's easier than it sounds. :) The bad news: getting the gig in the first place ... :sadtears: ... but ... more good news: your stuff sounds great! (imho)

cheers – jada

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1st April: sorry, really flat out. Hope to address Q more fully soon.

Basically, you use the "midi" setup at the sync'ing stage. The synthesized tracks might be all you need (or: all the budget will allow). Generally, live instrumental parts are recorded as overdubs (with either the synthesized track, or click, or both, in the players' cans).

gotta run – jada – that sync'ing feeling :)

Nice work!! :-)