Concerto for Orchestra Movement 1

Hello everyone I am a 15 year old composer of modern music mostly in the style of Bartok and Stravinsky. This piece is the first movement of the current concerto for orchestra that I am writing. It has many similarities to the music of Bartok. There are many fugato passages in various instrumental choirs and the whole movement is basically dedicated to the creation and development of 2 major motifs. I eagerly await comments. Thanks!

Here is the mp3,

concerto for orchestra mov1.mp3 - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage

Please note that the mp3 has many faults and sometimes creates echoes that do not sound good.

The score is attached

While it sounds nice, it would be a lot more helpful to have a score to read along with.

It has many similarities to the music of Bartok.

That's a dangerous comment to make about your own piece.

I like it at first listen, but like Qc said, I need a score.

That's a dangerous comment to make about your own piece.

No, No, not like that. I mean that I am greatly influenced by Bartok

oh lol.

I have attached a score. Enjoy!

Why are there sections in 10/8 and 8/8 that could easily just be written out 5/8 and 4/4? And when you have an orchestral piece, all the instruments you use are generally shown on the first oage, whether they're playing or not. After that, you can take the staves off until they're used. The score is kind of a mess.

I really, really like the piece music-wise though. It does remind me of Bartok a little bit, Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta comes to mind. It's eerie and the entries aren't overdone. I think you could have let the slow section stay for a while, the immediate contrast between slow and fast was unneccessary imo. I wanted to hear more of what was already there, it seemed like you just decided to go faster on a whim. There wasn't really a build-up or anything. I like the momentum throughout the piece, though. There's a great sense of movement.

I'll comment more later, right now I have to go.

Thanks for the comments

although i don't understand too much in atonal music, i do hear that there are some places that would really sound good in a real orchestra (not that the others won't... just some are even better).

well done!

did you ever experiment with neo-classical or late romantic like- writing?

Dor

did you ever experiment with neo-classical or late romantic like- writing?

Dor

I have been composing for 3 years and my first 2 years were spent writing music in the style of Beethoven and Mozart and the likes of those classical composers. Then I changed my style into a more modern approach of the likes of Bartok. So I guess I did experiment with some classical writing at one point.

I think emulating Bartok can be just as if not more beneficial than studying and writing like Beethoven. Really looking into Bartok can yield lots of fun creative ideas. I do agree with Voce, there was no build up, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. I enjoyed this, and I encourage you to keep writing like this, it sounds good.

Have you gotten to hear it with people?

I have not had a performance yet, but I will be attending the Juilliard pre-college program next year so hopefully I will get a performance there.

wow! you will be attending the Juilliard pre-college program?... that sounds so... shiny....

anyway, i would be happy to hear some of your romantic works.

cheers!

Dor

mmm like dorfischer said, i don't understand atonal music that well either but i hear a lot of good ideas there. definately good things i could learn from like learning to explore new harmonies and combinations. good work :)

i guess some parts could develop more, maybe include a section where everything is organized to provide contrast to the rest of the piece.

I'm not sure whether this is considered atonal or just extremely dissonant, I don't really listen to that music so I'm not personally sure. My guess would be atonal, though 'tis not generally my cup of tea. I just thought I'd like to mention that I thought I heard some snippets of Holst-esque textures going on in here, which highly intrigued me. Whenever I heard atonal music like this it reminds me of space. I'm not sure why, but right now I feel like I'm floating around Saturn or Jupiter in the middle of this slow section... then w00t, trombones. Sounds hectic. Sound like it would be difficult to play some of these passages, it sounds like every instrument has its own line and they are all different and at different timing, the timing would be utter Hell, I can only imagine. Indeed, page 4 of the score is a rhythmic insult to my eyes. The hyper-ish material that follows that section, after the fermata there, is probably my favourite part, and I liked how you calmed it down from there. Not much else of the piece really appealed to me much. Just sounds like a bunch of musicians ranting through their instruments in a very organised fashion. :happy:

I'll have to agree with Voce on this. I enjoyed the piece quite a bit but I felt that it needed more of a buildup to a final climax. I thought you had some great rhythmic material in there. Syncopated and somewhat irregular with all the time signature changes, but nothing too extreme. I also liked the agressive, dissonant chords you had in the brass in the section starting at bar 66 and where that idea returned later on.

One word of criticism though, I thought that overall the movement changed tempo a bit too much. I personally would have saved the slow section at bar 152 for a later movement and maintained the molto allegro tempo for the rest of the movement. Just my opinion though, it's your piece not mine. On the whole, I think you've done a pretty good job with it though and I look forward to subsequent movements.

One word of criticism though, I thought that overall the movement changed tempo a bit too much. I personally would have saved the slow section at bar 152 for a later movement and maintained the molto allegro tempo for the rest of the movement.

Thanks for the comments.

Actually about 2 days ago I decided that the piece should not be a concerto for orchestra but just a one movement overture of sorts. So i guess the tempo changes are acceptable now?

Indeed, page 4 of the score is a rhythmic insult to my eyes.

Enigmus, is the layout of the score improper, or is it the music that insults your eyes? I am uncertain of what you mean

It's a very competant piece of music and I enjoyed listening to it.

However, as a listener very familiar with the Bartok concerto for orchestra (and a great fan of it), I felt that this concerto for orchestra movement had inherent similarities to the Bartok first movement. While by your own confession this is not a coincidence, I would advise as a listener trying to strive for some difference between you and Bartok, simply because as it is you are putting yourself in direct competition with him.

Throughout this piece, all I could really think about was how I'd rather listen to the Bartok, and if you want people to absorb YOUR music, this isn't desirable!

However, as a listener very familiar with the Bartok concerto for orchestra (and a great fan of it), I felt that this concerto for orchestra movement had inherent similarities to the Bartok first movement. While by your own confession this is not a coincidence, I would advise as a listener trying to strive for some difference between you and Bartok, simply because as it is you are putting yourself in direct competition with him.

hmmm, that is interesting becuase when I hear the piece I hear no similarities to the Bartok Concerto for orchestra. To me it seems to take more influence from the music for strings percussion and celesta. Could you please point out where the music seems to resemble Bartok's concerto for orchestra? Thanks

I don't think this is atonal, the main theme you have is very emotive and singing. I think you did a lovely job with this one. I like the beginning, but as it went on there wasn't as much to latch on to. It was still interesting later on, I did give it a few listens, and I do enjoy your style. The tutti sections just kinda didn't do it for me. I liked when it went back to the winds with the melody though, you have a wonderful voice. I'll comment further after some more listens.

Vince

Well, well, well. Sidd Viswanathan! We meet again. I'm going to critique the piece and help you along here. However, know that I will be blunt and most likely will come off as harsh. Also note that I am not a fan of atonal music. In fact, I am an avid opposer to atonal music simply because music is supposed to be pleasing to the ear and not derived from mathematical formulas. (I refer to serialism and the atonal/polytonal movement of the recent decades.) So thusly, I did not like this piece. It's the style, not necessarily the notes themselves that are bad. And of course some people like that kind of stuff and may tear me to shreds for it, but I say again, I do not like atonal music! So keep that bias in mind while you read this. You have been warned.

The Visual:

I thought the actual score did not look nice. I don't know if the skewed pages were a mistake by your PDF creator, but that made the piece loose credibility. Any time something of yours is presented publically, (this forum is a public forum) It should look it's best, not some draft without proper staff names and too much white space. Now, granted, this is a draft. But at least make it look like a score that came out of proper notation program (Sibelius, right?) and not something that was photocopied or scanned. The number of woodwinds and brass is not clear in the score. Are there 3 flutes or 6? Are there 2 trombones or 8? Are there 4 horns or 16? I don't know because there are no numbers.

There are a lot of notational mistakes in terms of rests and beamings and so forth. The worst culprit though is probably the time signatures most of which are completely unnecessary. There

And BTW Sidd, I still have some of your works that you showed me way back on my iPod! "War of the Pharoahs" and so forth. Nice stuff.

Ah justin, I always look forward to your honest critques not holding anything back. Although I do not agree with you on many of the points I feel you made some valid ones as well and I thank you for taking the time to leave such a detailed analysis.

However, one thing I severely disagree with you in is your attitude towards "liking" a specific style of music or composer. You have posted earlier that you do not like Mozart and here you post that you do not like modern stuff. Don't you think it would make more sense to appreciate all kinds of music to formulate your own style and gain a wide appreciation for music as a whole? In my opinion, it is quite naive and closed-minded to stick to one way of thinking. Please think about that, and I hope you gain an appreciation for modern music and mozart soon.

Also I have taken a look at some of your pieces, especially the one performed by the NYP, and I really like your style and your use of harmony, counterpoint, and melody. Anyway, again I thank you for taking such time and effort to write a review as massive as yours.

Well, based on the score, I don't really like it, but that's just a matter of personal opinion.

My only suggestion is to keep the violas in alto clef unless there's a good reason to put them in treble, such as for ease of reading. My rather arbritrary standard is to keep them in alto unless they go to the lowest G on the A string. Whatever you do, remember that we don't like to go into treble clef.