Boat Across the Ocean UPDATED!

Well, for those who care about my music (read: No one), I haven't stopped composing. I've simply taken an extended break from incidental music. For those who may ask "Why?" (again, no one), I've found incidental music rather... boring. It has become too routine for me and I feel that if I am going to grow as a composer, I must explore other mediums. This was a conclusion I came to about 5 months ago now... and since, I've composed very, very little. One of the few things I actually have composed (and don't hate completely) is a small little concept piece I composed in an impressionist style called "Boat Across the Ocean". I was attempting to convey a sense of water trickling down and waves moving as one lies on a boat in a daze. For the few people that have heard this, I've been told it's very "Tyler-ish". I guess I should feel happy that I've found my own voice... even if it is that of a third-rate Americanized Ravel.

Anyway, any constructive criticism is welcome as ever. Hopefully I haven't been forgotten about on these forums. :whistling:

P.S. Should I just forget about the concept and just call this an etude? :D

MASSIVE UPDATE: So I'd completely forgotten about this piece until a friend of mine reminded me about it a few weeks ago. Upon re-listening, I discovered that I actually liked this some (something that rarely happens with my compositions) but found that it had much wasted potential. So I revised a good deal of it. It is now in a somewhat loose sonata form with the development section being entirely new. The piece is also much more climatic now since the abscence of one had always bothered me about it.

Also, I'm planning on turning this into a three movement work; all three movements being water-themed.

Anyway, I'm actually rather satisfied with this piece now and think it might be one of my best pieces to date. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

FURTHER EDIT: The piece has been further edited, though many of the changes are merely cosmetic. A few measures have been added and the tempo has been adjusted to add a LITTLE more realism to the piece.

The second and third movement of my suite are coming along nicely (though, watch me get struck with writer's block soon enough). The second will be entitled "The Sunken City" and the third will be "The Water Dragon". Cyclic form will be used in all the movements.

Anyway, any criticism is always welcome. A score will be posted... sometime.

Boat Across The Ocean.mid

Ironically, I find this to be a lot like incidental music. Not to say that isn't good, but to me, impressionist music is somewhat like incidental music on its own.

To the piece, it's very very artistic, which I love. The rapid arpeggio lines do convey the scene of a boat on a vast ocean, the harmonies are great. I felt that the melody could be further strenghthened(sp.) though. Make it flow more, lengthen it, variate it as well. The slow B section was really appropriate as it provides variation without losing the main direction.

If I were to edit this piece a little, I'd add a part where the basses play the melody, right now the melody just floats. If this is what you've intended, then good work. But I'd add something bassy, somewhat slow near the end to signify the end.

Good work! I've enjoyed it the most compared to your other works.:)

I think it's quite nice, although I would like to see a score if possible.

The only quip I can find is I would have liked to see a little bit more variation in terms of harmony, perhaps a minor key excursion to contrast the major feel of the rest of the piece?

I hear some minor harmonies in the piece but you don't really do much to expound on them, but that's just my opinion speaking

I think it's a lovely piece overall, impressionistic to say the least, but that's not a bad thing, in fact I think it's great

I give it a thumbs up

Ironically, I find this to be a lot like incidental music. Not to say that isn't good, but to me, impressionist music is somewhat like incidental music on its own.

To the piece, it's very very artistic, which I love. The rapid arpeggio lines do convey the scene of a boat on a vast ocean, the harmonies are great. I felt that the melody could be further strenghthened(sp.) though. Make it flow more, lengthen it, variate it as well. The slow B section was really appropriate as it provides variation without losing the main direction.

If I were to edit this piece a little, I'd add a part where the basses play the melody, right now the melody just floats. If this is what you've intended, then good work. But I'd add something bassy, somewhat slow near the end to signify the end.

Good work! I've enjoyed it the most compared to your other works.:)

Actually, I kind of have to agree. Satie in particular (espically his Gymnopodies) I feel are very reminiscent of incidental music... hell, they're even loopable. I do agree, the melody is lacking, both in strength and variation. Most of my pieces (including my incidental) work more around recurring motifs that randomly appear through out a piece rather than a direct, straight forward melody. Some people do like it, some people don't. All I can say for sure is writing a straight ahead, hummable melody is not my strong suit. Unfortunately, I have to keep this reply brief as I'm busy at the moment but thank you for the listen. :)

Hey, I believe you showed me this before. I don't think it was complete, though.

I'd have to say my favourite part is 1:50 to the end. So... that's about the 2nd half of the piece. :w00t: On my first listen, it seemed that the first half dragged on a little monophonically, but really the only thing I would complain about the piece is that you are constantly using some very frantic accompaniment. Is the ocean akin to raging rapids at all times? It is calm at times as well, you could have gotten away from the incessant arpeggios to make a nice contrast.

Will Kirk back there suggested an "excursion" into a minor mode for a contrast... I think if you did this, you might end up inducing more raw emotions in the listener than you intend. "Aw, a sad moment." Wait... oceans can be sad? WTF? So I think it's fine how you kept the mode rather consistent throughout the piece... what mode were you using, anyways? Was is lydian? Or am I just hearing loads of your Tylery 7ths and 9th extensions?

Hey, I believe you showed me this before. I don't think it was complete, though.

I'd have to say my favourite part is 1:50 to the end. So... that's about the 2nd half of the piece. :w00t: On my first listen, it seemed that the first half dragged on a little monophonically, but really the only thing I would complain about the piece is that you are constantly using some very frantic accompaniment. Is the ocean akin to raging rapids at all times? It is calm at times as well, you could have gotten away from the incessant arpeggios to make a nice contrast.

Will Kirk back there suggested an "excursion" into a minor mode for a contrast... I think if you did this, you might end up inducing more raw emotions in the listener than you intend. "Aw, a sad moment." Wait... oceans can be sad? WTF? So I think it's fine how you kept the mode rather consistent throughout the piece... what mode were you using, anyways? Was is lydian? Or am I just hearing loads of your Tylery 7ths and 9th extensions?

Actually, upon listening to the MIDI just now, I realized that it didn't come out quite the way I wanted. There isn't enough tempo or dynamic contrasts. I'm not sure why considering I thought it sounded fine when I made this thread. Maybe it just depends on my mood. Anyway, I think I'll re-do it, and get an actual recording up soon (not of an actual piano mind you, but at least a half-decent synth). But I do agree, there isn't enough contrast. I'm considering revising this piece as well. I've never posted a piece on here that I was wholly satisfied with and this is no exception.

As for the mode, it's actually in Dorian for the majority. There are quite a few modulations. I'm on a computer right now with neither a score nor the original file so this is just going by memory but I believe it goes from something like E Dorian to D Major back to E Dorian to F# Dorian to E Major to E# Dorian and ending on a D# Major 7th. Yes, all in a little over 3 minutes. >.> Oh, and there are quite a few 9th extensions throughout.

Anyway, thank you all for the listen.

Very nice picturing of the sea! The notion of running water is very well given, even in MIDI.

I can almost see the crystaline water and a small boat skimming across it...

I like it! :)

Definitley a boat on water! That was portrayed very well! And the "smaller" sounds added to the vastness, while "dropping" kinda of sounds were like rain on a sunny day or the water splashing into the boat! Excellent stuff!

Very nice, I've no time for further analysis, but I really enjoyed it.

Is there any chance you could post the score?

Is there any chance you could post the score?

My scores are always a mess and wrote this before I really knew how to write a proper piano score. Also, the original file is on different computer that I don't have regular access to. But once I find the file again, I'll rework it and have it up in a few days.

This is the first piece of music that I've heard in my short few first days here that I would like to actually listen to for pleasure. Good job!

... But once I find the file again, I'll rework it and have it up in a few days.

Or not. Hey, what if I decided I wanted to try and play it? :sadtears:

Or not. Hey, what if I decided I wanted to try and play it? :sadtears:

scraggy. I totally forgot about this thread. <.<

There WILL be score posted sometime. In the meanwhile, I'll be posting a massive update to this piece.

I had already commented on this, but since I've just listened to the updated version let me add that the development gives whole new dimension to it.

It feels more like a definite form and it seems to "travel" some more. I like how you managed to give it more emotion as it went on. and still maintained the "watery" technique.

I liked it.

Thank you for your comments. :)

Remind me later today and I'll comment on your Love Scene.

Anyway, I'm actually rather satisfied with this piece now and think it might be one of my best pieces to date. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I think it works really well as a piece of music. My only slight constructive thought on it is that you could have maybe said as much as you did in it in a slightly shorter amount of time. But really it holds together very well and has its own unique sound. Besides having the impressionist vibe that others mentioned the fast ostinatos remind me just a bit of Glass. Has anyone tried to play it live? That of course would add the final touch to it I'm sure, cuz if something can sound very good programmed then one can safely assume that it would only get better played by a sensitive performer....

Well the sibelius thing was useless,

So as I was saying, the time signature changes, because there are so many, could maybe probably be made easier, maybe even a free bar when the movement becomes more free and un-arpeggiated.

Again as I said it is very phillip glass but developed and therefore more interesting, and yeah, the imagery is very nice. it works as an ocean scenario (a name of one of my old works!) but it's the creatures that dwell around the shore that it specifically makes me think of. the arpeggios work as the waves coming in and out.

Quite lovely.

I'd say your sections are very good. Could use more practice at a few spots - around 2:10 the rising chromatic line though dramatic could have a just a tiny bit more preparation - also a few earlier spots (a score would help to identify them). But very small.

I like how you get away from the arpeggios around 3:00 mark and the textures thin out a little.

Like how the ending just evaporates and floats at the same time.

Around the 4:30 mark though beautiful the augmentation of the material and return of arpeggios strike a tad static - the harmonies could be a little more varied.

BTW - Wouldn't consider this incidental - rather substantial piece.

Just one long range suggestion. practice writing larger forms - sonatas, rondos, etc. Even take lessons with someone here at YC. You are achieving some of this ability of writing larger forms on your own but a I think some mentoring on a sonata or rondo form would help.

I think it works really well as a piece of music. My only slight constructive thought on it is that you could have maybe said as much as you did in it in a slightly shorter amount of time. But really it holds together very well and has its own unique sound. Besides having the impressionist vibe that others mentioned the fast ostinatos remind me just a bit of Glass. Has anyone tried to play it live? That of course would add the final touch to it I'm sure, cuz if something can sound very good programmed then one can safely assume that it would only get better played by a sensitive performer....

Thank you. I think this may be the first time anyone has ever described anything I've written as having a "unique sound". No one has attempted to play it yet but a fellow YCer has expressed some interest.... I just need to clean up the frackin' score first. <.< A sensitive performer definetly would be helpful. There are sections that I'd want a rather liberal rubato that I just couldn't produce in MIDI.

Well the sibelius thing was useless,

So as I was saying, the time signature changes, because there are so many, could maybe probably be made easier, maybe even a free bar when the movement becomes more free and un-arpeggiated.

Again as I said it is very phillip glass but developed and therefore more interesting, and yeah, the imagery is very nice. it works as an ocean scenario (a name of one of my old works!) but it's the creatures that dwell around the shore that it specifically makes me think of. the arpeggios work as the waves coming in and out.

Quite lovely.

Thanks for the listen. Yeah, I agree that at some points the time signature changes get so hectic that I could just add a free bar section. To be honest, the slower sections sound rather awkward to me and are not really how I'd like them played. But... the playback kept fighting me so I just left it as is.

I'd say your sections are very good. Could use more practice at a few spots - around 2:10 the rising chromatic line though dramatic could have a just a tiny bit more preparation - also a few earlier spots (a score would help to identify them). But very small.

I like how you get away from the arpeggios around 3:00 mark and the textures thin out a little.

Like how the ending just evaporates and floats at the same time.

Around the 4:30 mark though beautiful the augmentation of the material and return of arpeggios strike a tad static - the harmonies could be a little more varied.

BTW - Wouldn't consider this incidental - rather substantial piece.

Just one long range suggestion. practice writing larger forms - sonatas, rondos, etc. Even take lessons with someone here at YC. You are achieving some of this ability of writing larger forms on your own but a I think some mentoring on a sonata or rondo form would help.

Yes, I agree some of the transitions between sections is a little rough. A real performer could probably smooth some of it out but there is still some stuff that bothers me. I'll most likely end up coming back to this in a few weeks or months and revising it once again. And yes, I probably should devote more attention to form. As it is now, I'm rather bad at conforming to any strict form and whenever I do fit a form, it's both loose and more a natural result of my writing rather than the writing being a natural result of it.

Thanks once again to all your helpful comments. :)

To be honest, the slower sections sound rather awkward to me and are not really how I'd like them played. But... the playback kept fighting me so I just left it as is.

When in doubt, don't rely on playback. Sometimes it's best to just look at the music and imagine how you'd like it played, as long as you agree with the notes. If the MIDI is how you want it to sound, by the time you make a score, reading the music might be interpreted much differently than how you perceived it and realised it in the MIDIfication.

Yes, I agree some of the transitions between sections is a little rough. A real performer could probably smooth some of it out but there is still some stuff that bothers me.

Provided they're even possible to play comfortably. Some of those wide arpeggios sound like quite a stretch, especially at that rapid tempo in some places. It might become a hit and miss situation. However, that all depends on what the notes really are, and is why I'm bugging the Hell out of you about finishing a score and getting it up.

Yes, I agree some of the transitions between sections is a little rough.

A transition ? ... but a composition in a unique and complete form ! ... So transitions are "musically bad and short sections" which conduct to "musically good and longer sections" ? ... what a mistake such a concept ! :S

[quote name='Rapha

Enjoyable, I liked the recurrence of the motif, although it didn't really go away long enough for me to miss it and get a rush when it came back.

It reminds me somewhat of Britten's sea interludes, but then I suppose they both have to do with the sea, go figure!

One suggestion - maybe you could try for some more mileage out of the lower registers of the piano.

-Dan

Touches of Debussy in this, I like it. The change around 1:36 is very nice and beautiful.

I like how you explore the ranges on the piano with your material - not dulling at all and very rich.