About 5 strings Contrabasses

Since many years ago some composers have written notes below the E on contrabass parts.

Players used to move down the 4th string or use some

If you're in Europe, sure. If you're in America, absolutely not.

Ups

It also depends on the kind of music you write. If you're writing music in an a contemporary idiom, then I think it's perfectly acceptable to write for a C-Bass. However, if you want the 5-string simply so you can double the cello, I think you have more problems than just not reaching those low pitches.

Also, there's nothing wrong with C extensions. In fact, since 5-string instruments generally have the same size fingerboard (for bowed strings, at least), I'd prefer an extension, as it's very easy to accidentally hit multiple strings on a 5-string bass (or the hybrid 5-string viola)

No I wasn't thinking in doubling the cello only...

so with extensions or 5s contrabasses.... Is it "safe" to write passages demanding notes below the E ?

(I'm thinking in Symphonic Works)

Yes! But only if the group intended is profesional.

I don't know if you know that the lowest string is usually a C string :) But I was on a concert on last friday, and the the player just made his string to sound lower and lower WHILE PLAYING... okay...

anyway.. hungarian contemporary music.. well.. my teacher (Madar

I don't know if you know that the lowest string is usually a C string But I was on a concert on last friday, and the the player just made his string to sound lower and lower WHILE PLAYING... okay...

Double bass C extension

I just had to think of a nice little story that happened in a symphony orchestra in my vicinity. So, there was the double bass register in said orchestra, and a couple of them had 5 string basses. They went to the orchestra management and demanded to be given additional payment for this string because it "falls outside the range of the standard of the instrument they are paid for". This argument is generally admitted, for example timpanists get additional payment if they also have to play other percussion instruments during a concert (assuming they are strictly hired as timpanists and not percussionists). So in this case too, the orchestra management agreed and gave the bassists their additional money.

The thing now however was that the bassists who didn't have a fifth string were a bit annoyed that their collegues got more money, simply for having a slightly different bass. But they were all such good buddies that the bassists who did gain the additional payment for their fifth string decided to split their proceeds up between their whole register. So in the end, every contrabassist, regardless of string number, gained some nice little additional revenue, for nothing.

You can learn something from these guys! :P

I know guys who tune double-bass is 5ths, with a low C...no fancy extension.

It's common when writing below the low E to split the part into octaves, so that players with the C extension can play the lower part, and those without aren't left stranded.

It's maybe a good idea always to assume that some players *won't* have a low C or B, unless you know for sure otherwise.

Write an ossia part, no matter what.

The problem with 5-string basses is that the instruments themselves are rarely any good. Having a fifth string entirely changes the tension on the instrument and alter the playability and tone. For this reason, most bass players choose not use them. Most orchestras do have bass players with extensions, and any bass player with experience in an orchestra is used to reading literature that goes down to a low C

I disagree. The construction should be a little different, but taking this into account, a well-constructed 5-string bass should have as good tone quality as a well-constructed 4-string.

I guess it's just a lot harder to construct a five string double-bass with a similarly strong and distinct sound as a 4 string bass. It's not so much a question of tone tone quality as of power. With the higher tension on the soundboard, it can't swing as freely, because it's dampened by the pressure.

That's also why up to the 18th century time double basses had only three strings, and even after Beethoven's time when this changed to four strings, many orchestras still had some three string double basses throughout the 19th century, to produce more bass power. (This is also combined with the vanishing of frets on basses during Mozarts time: They also took a part in creating a clearer, more distinct and strong tone, but were abolished to allow for a more precise intonation, and later also vibrato. Mozart always complained about this trend though. He preferred double basses with frets.)

However, it should be kept in mind that those reduction in sound power were accompanied by technical improvements of the double bass which made up for them (along with increases of orchestra sizes).

There are also bassists who make changes to their bass so they can attach a fifth string at will. It is a somewhat risky procedure though, since you don't always know beforehand whether the soundboard of a four string bass will be able to hold up to that increased tension of an additional string. But if it works it can be a very effective way of changing between more power and an extended range as needed.

I see no problems of pressure, tension or playability in a 5 string contrabass.

If some Contrabassist has played a 4s Bass his entire life and he suddenly switches to a 5s bass, he may find a lot of problems like being hitting the 5th string constantly while playing the 4th, or being not used to a grosser string...things like that, but those are problems of the Player, not of the Instrument....those problems would become excuses

Is it kind of secure write to the low C, but not so secure to the low B ? (speaking of extensions)

No I wasn't thinking in doubling the cello only...

so with extensions or 5s contrabasses.... Is it "safe" to write passages demanding notes below the E ?

(I'm thinking in Symphonic Works)

Best way to get that low C is using a contrabassoon. With the basses doubled an octave higher, you'll have the effect of a low C on the basses.

There's always scordatura...

Tuning the E to a D, or lower...

Thought I'd bring that up.

I Hope someday Contrabass players finally switches to the 5 strings Contrabass, (like they did from 3 to 4 many years ago). I think in the years to come, that will be a more and more necessary change. I don’t like very much the idea of leaving the decision to the player…the score calls for a low C, and just watch the “Professional Orchestra Players” start doing different stuff, some, moving down the E string, others using an extension, others playing with a 5s basses, others even adding a 5th string to his common bass….what kind of circus is that ?

No one else do that behavior in the Orchestra, if some Bass tuba* needs to play lower, he gets a Contrabass Tuba, if some dummy composer writes a low A in the common C Flute, the Flute player won’t start making weird stuff with his flute, he just gets an Alto Flute… that’s it

*(I know Bass tuba is not very used on orchestras, was just an example)

Why Contrabass players cannot just switch to a most contemporary Instrument?

Besides I find some problems with the extension:

i.e. let’s say the score calls for a fast chromatic scale from the lowest C to the C 2 octaves above, … the Bassist must play the notes C, C#, D, D#,… E, …F, …..F#,…. G,....G#, uuuuff.... and finally he finds the A in the next string and continue playing in position 1…while the S strings bass can play that very comfortable.

But I see now that is not the time yet, to be demanding a 5 string contrabasses just like that, perhaps in the future.

if some dummy composer writes a low A in the common C Flute, the Flute player won

Yet a composer writes a low A for standard bassoon and the performer shoves a curled folder or piece of paper/cardboard up the end of his instrument. Go figure. :musicwhistle:

is not the player's fault, the fault lies with the ignorance of the composer.

Yes I was trying to say that the rational thing to do is finding the right instrument instead of trying to adapt you current one, mostly if the correct instrument for that already exists.

As I've said many times before, if you DEMAND that low C, just do it and write in the score that you've written for a 5-string bass. The inability to work around the limitations of your instruments, however, sounds more like a compositional deficiency than an instrument deficiency.

Just saying, is all.

It also should be noted that in most cases just having one or two players with a 5-string bass and the rest playing those low notes an octave higher will sound almost the same as the whole group playing it in the low register. Like in the suggestion of using a contra-bassoon, using just one or two 5-string basses will still create the feeling of this low C/C#/D/D#, plus you keep the advantages that 4-string basses have to offer.

P.S. A Cello C-String tuned an octave lower sounds awesome :D It won't sound like a Cello anymore, it won't sound strong, it will affect the tuning of all other strings, etc. but I still love it. (See Xenakis' nomos alpha for cello solo.)

the inability to work around the limitations of your instruments, however, sounds more like a compositional deficiency than an instrument deficiency.

Well, Yes, that is correct, but I actually don't feel unable to work with those limitations, I have never called a lower note than E on the contrabass* in Orchestra Pieces, and I work comfortable...I post the thread because of my doubts...

(*only in a short piece for small orchestra where I call for a very reduced strings section with 2 contrabasses only, there, I did call 5 strings Basses)

Ok. I think leaving those notes for the Contrabassoon is the correct for the moment, I may write some low D from time to time in "some" basses... but my current way to handle the low harmony sustain notes will remain unchanged.

Thank you all.