What do you use your notation software for?

Seems like an obvious question, but considering the ever-increasing power of the personal computer and the "homogenization" of music composition and technology that the compositional process has evolved.

Given the tools at hand where does your notation software fit in the mix? Do you use it for printing, audio production, pre-production for recordings, compositional sketching....etc......

At this point I use mine (Notion...:)) as means to sketch ideas, Print parts out for musicians I'm playing with, utilize sample libraries and compose using notation (not a sequencer!!!). It's become an integral part of my music production and extended beyond just a tool to compose....

Just wondering what you all think....

2 cents,

Kyle

I use (Finale) exclusively as a notational tool - score/parts.

Softwares are (for me) cumbersome and awkward to use for anything else. Sketching and outlines and even the entire compositional process (finding/trying melodic contour, rhythms, density, etc) moves WAY to fast (and in a non-linear fashion) for me to bother inputting it into a constricting little porgram.

Once I get something concrete onto paper, then I can dump it into the computer. (How long it stays there is another matter ;) )

I write down melodies and harmonies and whatever I get on paper, I write it in on the computer to see if it works, and to figure out which note to start on. For example, I know that I should have four ascending notes, but Finale helps me figure out which four they should be, because I can hear if it's right or wrong.

I use it solely for notation. Finale doesn't work as well as my other programs for audio production, designing the sounds of the instruments, post-production or other tasks. This is also true because I use a combination of VST samples instead of simply relying on GPO and Finale working together.

I use it (Finale, in my case) for composition (from sketch to finished product), notation (obviously), and audio mock-ups (mostly for my use only - from simple error-checking to a 'performance' mock-up if I want to show it to someone interested in playing/purchasing). I'm not a media composer; I write for humans.

I use it solely for notation. Finale doesn't work as well as my other programs for audio production, sound design, post-production or other tasks. This is also true because I use a combination of VST samples instead of simply relying on GPO and Finale working together.

What exactly do you mean by "relying on GPO and Finale working together"

Are you referring to the difficulty in mapping the playback via Kontakt?

I use Lilypond to hammer little needles under my fingernails... I mean, to assemble tidied drafts out of manuscript jottings.

It's truly a write-only language.

What exactly do you mean by "relying on GPO and Finale working together"

Are you referring to the difficulty in mapping the playback via Kontakt?

I use Logic (or Sonar if at home) and Kontakt 3 to hand pick the samples I want to use. Sometimes I morph multiple samples from one library together, other times I use a variety of samples from different libraries. The key is to find the best sound that works for that particular musical passage. From what I've experienced with Finale and GPO, it seems to want to do this for me and the results were not as good as I could get when I did this myself. Doing it myself allows me to have much more control and achieve the exact sound I'm after (real or synthetic). It is more advanced and does take more time but I feel it's worth it. I also don't think GPO has near the realism, flexibility and high definition as the more expensive sample libraries (East West Symphonic Plat., VSL Complete, ProjectSAM, etc) have.

This, on top of the fact that most standard DAWs (Pro Tools, Logic, Sonar, etc) have more audio production tool sets, better MIDI input work spaces and more variety for exporting out your work, a DAW is my preferred set up for creating music. So this is why I use notation programs solely for notation. :)

I use Sibelius, for everything, (sketch, orchestrate, etc) I don't use paper ...

I use Lilypond to hammer little needles under my fingernails... I mean, to assemble tidied drafts out of manuscript jottings.

It's truly a write-only language.

OHMYGOD!!! How can you stand it?

I use Logic (or Sonar if at home) and Kontakt 3 to hand pick the samples I want to use. Sometimes I morph multiple samples from one library together, other times I use a variety of samples from different libraries. The key is to find the best sound that works for that particular musical passage. From what I've experienced with Finale and GPO, it seems to want to do this for me and the results were not as good as I could get when I did this myself. Doing it myself allows me to have much more control and achieve the exact sound I'm after (real or synthetic). It is more advanced and does take more time but I feel it's worth it. I also don't think GPO has near the realism, flexibility and high definition as the more expensive sample libraries (East West Symphonic Plat., VSL Complete, ProjectSAM, etc) have.

This, on top of the fact that most standard DAWs (Pro Tools, Logic, Sonar, etc) have more audio production tool sets, better MIDI input work spaces and more variety for exporting out your work, a DAW is my preferred set up for creating music. So this is why I use notation programs solely for notation. :)

Well...all I can say is that we're cooking up a new version of Notion that will release very soon and will bridge the gap between a DAW and notation software better than anything out there;)

Well...all I can say is that we're cooking up a new version of Notion that will release very soon and will bridge the gap between a DAW and notation software better than anything out there.

Interesting. I'd love to see what Notion comes up with. You're only concerned with bridging this gap and not with replacing DAW applications right? I mean, no offense, but I doubt Notion or any other notation-based software could do as much deep audio processing at the same level Logic, Pro Tools or some of the other DAWs can do. That would require quite a bit more software...

Interesting. I'd love to see what Notion comes up with. You're only concerned with bridging this gap and not with replacing DAW applications right? I mean, no offense, but I doubt Notion or any other notation-based software could do as much deep audio processing at the same level Logic, Pro Tools or some of the other DAWs can do. That would require quite a bit more software...

No definitely not replacing...Notion has focused more on streamlining the writing process for folks who use a few programs or methods to compose. I can get into more specifics VERY soon, and I'll let you all know as soon as I can:D

I'm really impressed with what we've come up with...and frankly I've been a ProTools user for nearly 10 years and I'm kind of annoyed that they're trying to include "everything and the kitchen sink." Don't get me wrong I do love PT8, but I wish that some of the advances they've made to the program were more focused on recording (ADC!!!).

Consider me officially intrigued! :)

OHMYGOD!!! How can you stand it?

It's bearable as long as you never type in a piece that isn't finished...

But why would anyone use lilypond? I just don't get it... What exactly does it DO?

I've never much used Lilypond myself, but I can understand why one might. For some people a text-based approach is just more comfortable than exact pointing-and-clicking with a mouse. For some applications I'm totally like this too (I'm generally not too fond of graphical "programming" environments, for example, be that html editors, sound synthesis, etc.). The kind of control you have in a text/keyboard-based software is simply a different one than in a very graphically/mouse-based one.

I've never much used Lilypond myself, but I can understand why one might. For some people a text-based approach is just more comfortable than exact pointing-and-clicking with a mouse. For some applications I'm totally like this too (I'm generally not too fond of graphical "programming" environments, for example, be that html editors, sound synthesis, etc.). The kind of control you have in a text/keyboard-based software is simply a different one than in a very graphically/mouse-based one.

How interesting... Me, being a visual learner, I cannot stand programs that don't have pictures to show me what it's doing. lolz.

It's (Lilypond is) really not that hard, like most things, when you get used to it. As long as you know what you're typing, you know what will come out. The larger the piece gets, however, it become quite a pain in my opinion. I wouldn't use it for anything except typesetting a score (it's purpose), but even then, I'm happy enough with Finale's output.

I use (Finale) exclusively as a notational tool - score/parts.

Softwares are (for me) cumbersome and awkward to use for anything else. Sketching and outlines and even the entire compositional process (finding/trying melodic contour, rhythms, density, etc) moves WAY to fast (and in a non-linear fashion) for me to bother inputting it into a constricting little porgram.

Once I get something concrete onto paper, then I can dump it into the computer. (How long it stays there is another matter ;) )

As I've probably stated numerous times, I'm the complete opposite. Sketching and ideas that occur throughout the compositional process just happen too fast for me to keep track of them on paper, writing on paper is too constricting and meticulous. I use Finale for all aspects of composing. It's better because I don't have to be constantly scratching out measures or notes because my mind changes so often (and it does) and if it were a pencil, I'd be erasing notes until I wore a hole in the paper (it has happened). With Finale I can cut whole measures out, copy a pattern I want to repeat many times (i.e., ostinato), or insert blank measures between what I already have wherever I want. If I change my mind about instrument assignments, it's easy to move a part from one staff to another with just one click and a drag and I can even transpose it up or down an octave if I want, or whatever interval. All this would be too slow and tedious to do on paper for me, and as I decide what I want to do, I like to be able to instantly change what I have in front of me - Finale gives me this.

Well, it is only somewhat slow if you always think in terms of complete scores. But when sketching on paper you'd just do this kind of things differently: Instead of erasing stuff, you just strike it through, instead of repeating patterns, you use things like simile marks, instead of moving passages "to another instrument", you just write "trumpet" over it, instead of transposing something by an octave, you write 8va etc. It won't look like a clean score like that, but it gets down your ideas quickly. And if in some passage you already know a rhythm but not yet the pitches for it, you can just notate the rhythm with stems only, without having to bother with removing some noteheads as you would have to if you did that in Finale. Etc.

I can understand how it may seem more meticulous to some people - after all every person has her or his own way of working quickly, but I don't quite understand how it is "constricting". How can an empty piece of paper be more constricting than a program built on fixed rules?

But I guess it's useless to argue about how our respective ways of doing things are superior :P It -is- after all just about what you're comfortable with.

Personally, I do it exactly like Robin.

I have used lilypond for the actual compositional process.

It's a royal pain in the donkey, but I'm not sure if I'll work THAT much faster with Finale(Sibelius being way too expensive).

For me Lilypond does work fine for small scores in a "well setup environment".

Well setup enviorment being a window with the code and one with the pdf.

when I press F5 lilypond compiles everything refreshes the score and F6 plays the midi.

Also, syntax highlighting, autocompletion, shortcuts for halving, doubling dotting note values, transposing, etc...

So I just sort of use my money for food and clothing for now and plow trough thousands of lines of lilypond notes.

(don't hesitate to tell me to go buy a copy of Sibelius : P)

Although Gardener does have a point, I might need to try to just write on paper more often, especially for larger works.

(imagine this, a symphony in lilypond, and I want to add an extra bar to some section, have fun making sure each voice that is not used has a rest added at the right spot...)

-Bob

Very good question Kyle,

When I write music I use software cause I want to hear the progression of my music, this is how I get used to compose but this is not always ''right'' I think...

I use notation programs (Finale 2009 and Sibelius 5.1) only when I have a theme and I want to edit it or when I want to give the sheets to performers and players.

I think for the composer is awsome to hear the music the moment that he writes and if Mozart and Bach were living today propably they will use a sequencer.(I don't know Logic or Cubase):w00t:

But there is an other part of composers that they think if you don't write with your pencil in your blank sheet you lose your voice of your heart and your voice as a composer I don't know what is ''right'' I think is different to all of us.

Sibelius, Bob, would be the best choice. Lilypond does kinda suck (so I hear) for large groups, and for a BIG piece, writing by hand is probably the longest, most labor-intensive choice. Finale would probably work better than lilypond or hand, but Sibelius is still the best option :)

Sibelius, Bob, would be the best choice. Lilypond does kinda suck (so I hear) for large groups, and for a BIG piece, writing by hand is probably the longest, most labor-intensive choice. Finale would probably work better than lilypond or hand, but Sibelius is still the best option :)

WARNING: Subjective post alert! lol.

WARNING: Subjective post alert! lol.

Either way, he is conviced enough of his own opinion that I'll try to write a piece using the trial version of Sibelius, see if it works that much better.

Also, you go me curious, what notation program do you use(if any) and what for?

-Bob