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danishali903

YC SUMMER COMPETITION ANNOUNCEMENT

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Just a description of the piece submitted. Not looking for a tome, but something that judges and other listeners can read and know what to expect. (For example: if you set a poem/sonnet to music, it would be wise to list the poem/sonnet in the program)

The language I used to make the rules was copied from previous competitions, so maybe my interpretation of what they are maybe different from original intention. I don't believe this has even happened before, but I think people can abuse the bonus point awards. For example, if someone submits detailed, well formatted program notes, I expect them to get the bonus points...compared to someone who just writes 1-2 sentences, hastily thrown together. 

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Is it absolutely essential that the piece be 5 minutes? The parameters I have chosen make that literally impossible because the text's length is tied to the piece's length in a very fundamental way and I chose a sonnet which is not very long. I have two minutes of raw material which will probably end up being closer to two and a half minutes in performance. The alterations required to expand the form are too significant so I would be back at square one. I will be forced to resign from this competition if this is not acceptable.

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23 minutes ago, Gylfi said:

Is it absolutely essential that the piece be 5 minutes? The parameters I have chosen make that literally impossible because the text's length is tied to the piece's length in a very fundamental way and I chose a sonnet which is not very long. I have two minutes of raw material which will probably end up being closer to two and a half minutes in performance. The alterations required to expand the form are too significant so I would be back at square one. I will be forced to resign from this competition if this is not acceptable.

 

If I may interject here - only because I am also doing a sonnet. See the previous discussion on the minimum requirements of length. I had made my case against a 5 minute requirement and it was considered and rejected. And now the rules are set: 5-20 are the parameters.

The sonnets are all the same, formally and lengthwise, give or take a performer's interpretation, only a minute or so.  So I knew going in that I would have to do something more "creative" to make the requirement. You'll have to do the same. It shouldn't be that difficult.

Edited by Ken320

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1 minute ago, Ken320 said:

So I knew going in that I would have to do something more "creative" to make the requirement. You'll have to do the same. It shouldn't be that difficult.

 

With all due respect, I said it was impossible - not merely difficult. I will need to start over or forfeit.

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5 minutes ago, Ken320 said:

You should have read the rules before starting. But have heart.

I have been aware all this time of the requirement, I just didn't know that the text would yield so little. I suppose there is one way that I could lengthen the piece somewhat without starting over from scratch, but it would not give me 2-3 extra minutes without it being highly artificial. It would also mean adding an element that I would rather not introduce, so the piece would make less sense overall and I would get a minus point for lack of coherence…

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Dude, what are complaining to me for? Just buck up or get out. You're supposed to be a composer. Just figure it out.

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10 minutes ago, Ken320 said:

Dude, what are complaining to me for? Just buck up or get out. You're supposed to be a composer. Just figure it out.

This is an open forum, I asked a legitimate question and upon meeting resistance provided elaboration. I'm sorry if you felt I was pleading to you personally, that was not the case.

As I said, there is quite little to figure out because the premises place stringent constraints on the length. It would be trivial to extend the piece to meet the length requirement, I could do so in a few hours. Kind of like how it is trivial to print currency and dump it into the economy, but it makes the currency worthless…

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I understand your dilemma, Gylfi. However, I think it would be unfair to other contestants to make an exception in this case, especially when I assume most people are coming to finish their entries and getting them ready for submission. 

I won't tell you (or force) you to drop out, because you still have a month to submit your entry. I'm sure (and I know) there are various ways you can go about to meet the 5 minute minimum requirement, though I understand that won't be easy or feasible. 

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39 minutes ago, danishali903 said:

I understand your dilemma, Gylfi. However, I think it would be unfair to other contestants to make an exception in this case, especially when I assume most people are coming to finish their entries and getting them ready for submission. 

I won't tell you (or force) you to drop out, because you still have a month to submit your entry. I'm sure (and I know) there are various ways you can go about to meet the 5 minute minimum requirement, though I understand that won't be easy or feasible. 

Okay. I don't find that unreasonable, but I do question the value of length requirements when contestants are not on equal footing. It's different if you make the parameters so narrow that there is no excuse for not having enough material. However, this contest is basically like an equivalent poetry composition contest with a minimum line requirement. Suppose my ideas are developed in such a way that they are best realized in a single stanza Haiku of three lines (which is the case). Does it make sense to consider it invalid just because somebody else worked with different ideas which they developed in such a way as to be adaptable to a thirty line prose piece? Rules are rules, but is anybody being disadvantaged? You don't even get points for the length, only the quality. If the piece is poorly developed, be it long or short, you are not going to win anything. Not that I expect an exception to be made in this particular case, but it is worth consideration for the future. I'll have to think about whether I'm going to stay in, I don't have time to rack my brains thinking of a way to inflate a ping pong ball to the size of a tennis ball without bursting it. It's not really a valid issue, in my opinion…

EDIT: But I can't complain. I learned something in the process of composing the piece which is something that will not be lost even if I drop out.

Edited by Gylfi

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Ah hell, I have to admit that I am having too much fun with the piece to give up now. As the sleepless desperation has passed (but not the sleeplessness, unfortunately) I have come up with a realistic if slightly vague plan for reaching the minimum length without compromising anything (not in a detrimental sense at least). Could even be that it serves the fundamental concept even better, but I will have to think long and hard…

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5 hours ago, Gylfi said:

Ah hell, I have to admit that I am having too much fun with the piece to give up now. As the sleepless desperation has passed (but not the sleeplessness, unfortunately) I have come up with a realistic if slightly vague plan for reaching the minimum length without compromising anything (not in a detrimental sense at least). Could even be that it serves the fundamental concept even better, but I will have to think long and hard…

 

I'm glad to hear that. I look forward to hearing what you come up with . Good luck!

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I wonder why the minimum length of the piece is set at 5 minutes long. Or indeed why there even is a minimum length. I understand the reason for the maximum length. But the inclusion of a minimum length seems unfair and unjust to composers of miniatures. Do you not consider miniatures a part of music or as worthy compositions?

P.S. This competition had long been at the back of my mind. And now finally I brought an idea to fruition, and I just finished my piece. Only, it turns out, like most of my pieces, it is 1:24 minutes long. So I guess that I cannot submit it unless you make an exception or change the rules. And I think that that would be a shame.

Edited by luderart

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1 hour ago, luderart said:

Do you not consider miniatures a part of music or as worthy compositions?

I don't know where you're getting this impression from....but to answer your question, I DO consider them musical compositions (whether they are "worthy" or not is subjective). 

As to the minimum length requirement, I've listed out my reasoning below:

1. This is NOT a contest for miniatures, never stated anywhere that it is. From what I understand, "miniatures" can be as short as a minute and as long as 5-6 minutes. I also gave the option of submitting multiple movement works to meet the 5 minute requirement, so I don't see the issue in all this. 

2. The competition was announced in the middle of May, and I set the deadline to the middle of August. Entrants had THREE months (and still have less than a month) to come up with an entry. If the timeframe for submission was shorter, as it used to be before (I believe we had a month and half or two months?), I would understand the need for no minimum requirement. But with this longer time frame, one would expect something longer.

3. I believe someone brought this point up earlier in the thread, that these contests should be a way of challenging yourself and forcing you to step out of your comfort zone. If you're used to writing short pieces, this should force you to develop your music and expand your material. In the real world, you need to adapt to changes/requirements/constraints thrown at you...because life is unfair at times! If I start to make exceptions for everybody's issue with something, that would defeat the purpose of setting the rules and constraints in the first place...

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12 hours ago, danishali903 said:

I don't know where you're getting this impression from....but to answer your question, I DO consider them musical compositions (whether they are "worthy" or not is subjective). 

As to the minimum length requirement, I've listed out my reasoning below:

1. This is NOT a contest for miniatures, never stated anywhere that it is. From what I understand, "miniatures" can be as short as a minute and as long as 5-6 minutes. I also gave the option of submitting multiple movement works to meet the 5 minute requirement, so I don't see the issue in all this. 

2. The competition was announced in the middle of May, and I set the deadline to the middle of August. Entrants had THREE months (and still have less than a month) to come up with an entry. If the timeframe for submission was shorter, as it used to be before (I believe we had a month and half or two months?), I would understand the need for no minimum requirement. But with this longer time frame, one would expect something longer.

3. I believe someone brought this point up earlier in the thread, that these contests should be a way of challenging yourself and forcing you to step out of your comfort zone. If you're used to writing short pieces, this should force you to develop your music and expand your material. In the real world, you need to adapt to changes/requirements/constraints thrown at you...because life is unfair at times! If I start to make exceptions for everybody's issue with something, that would defeat the purpose of setting the rules and constraints in the first place...

 

Thanks for the explanations. I'll see what I can do.

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When will the actual specifics of the contest be posted, regarding deadline and posting procedures? We need to plan accordingly. Thanks. Or did I miss it somewhere?

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1 hour ago, Ken320 said:

When will the actual specifics of the contest be posted, regarding deadline and posting procedures? We need to plan accordingly. Thanks. Or did I miss it somewhere?

 

Sorry if this was not clear. I posted some details in the rules, and alluded to others, but I'll clarify somethings. The deadline for submission is August 15th. I will start another thread where entrants can start posting their entries. I am either thinking to open/create that thread either on August 1st or the 8th. I'm leaning towards the 8th since that's one week before the deadline. 

Let me know if you have any other questions

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I'm a little late in replying, but if I understand the rules correctly then we should be able to submit works in multiple movements as long as they add up to something within the parameters (in this case, 5-20 minutes.) I know you don't usually write at that length of time Luderart, but I imagine you could write a series of miniatures (soliloquies, sententia etc) for the competition. If I'm wrong, someone correct me, but I think that would work.

As for myself, I'm struggling (bravely, if I may say so) to pump this thing out in time. Looking forward to seeing what everyone has in store.

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On 8/1/2016 at 1:29 AM, KJthesleepdeprived said:

I'm a little late in replying, but if I understand the rules correctly then we should be able to submit works in multiple movements as long as they add up to something within the parameters (in this case, 5-20 minutes.) I know you don't usually write at that length of time Luderart, but I imagine you could write a series of miniatures (soliloquies, sententia etc) for the competition. If I'm wrong, someone correct me, but I think that would work.

As for myself, I'm struggling (bravely, if I may say so) to pump this thing out in time. Looking forward to seeing what everyone has in store.

 

I am doing exactly that KJ! And I have a question myself. How strict is the 5-minute minimum limit? I know a 1:24 minute piece wouldn't qualify (as was the case of my soliloquy inspired by this competition. But how about a series of 9 sententiae the MP3 recording of which adds up to just 4:40. Would it still fail to qualify? I mean, how stringent are you in applying the 5-minute minimum? If you apply it literally, then I would be disappointed since I believe that music is not about quantity but about quality, and you should at least provide some leeway, some room. In the same spirit, the question arises if someone composes a piece 20:20 minutes long, would it qualify or fail to do so? And I think that exactitude in these matters would be futile since the exact length of a piece would also depend on the interpretation.

Edited by luderart

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15 hours ago, luderart said:

I am doing exactly that KJ! And I have a question myself. How strict is the 5-minute minimum limit? I know a 1:24 minute piece wouldn't qualify (as was the case of my soliloquy inspired by this competition. But how about a series of 9 sententiae the MP3 recording of which adds up to just 4:40. Would it still fail to qualify? I mean, how stringent are you in applying the 5-minute minimum? If you apply it literally, then I would be disappointed since I believe that music is not about quantity but about quality, and you should at least provide some leeway, some room. In the same spirit, the question arises if someone composes a piece 20:20 minutes long, would it qualify or fail to do so? And I think that exactitude in these matters would be futile since the exact length of a piece would also depend on the interpretation.

 

Those examples would have to be looked at a case-by-case basis. However, I (and the other judges) would be forgiving if the piece was +/- 30 seconds of the time requirement. 

 

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On 8/6/2016 at 7:53 PM, danishali903 said:

Those examples would have to be looked at a case-by-case basis. However, I (and the other judges) would be forgiving if the piece was +/- 30 seconds of the time requirement. 

 

 

Thanks. That is good to know!

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I have refrained from commenting directly on individual pieces until I have a chance to review all the entries after the deadline but I wanted to extend my respect and congratulations to all of you.  This is really what this is about, inspiring the composition of truly outstanding pieces in the spirit of friendly competition.  I look forward to hearing the all the other entries!

Happy composing to all.

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