Piano Quartet in C minor - 2nd movement added 3/23/07

And at long last, I've got a finished movement! First movement of anything I've completed in 19 months...

This is the first movement of a piano quartet that I've been working on for almost 3 years now (as a medical student, I simply don't have much time to compose except during breaks); you may have seen fragments of this quartet in Works-In-Progress over the past year. It's pretty close to a standard sonata allegro opening movement, with a slow introduction, and a somewhat abbreviated recapitulation. I've aimed to build every aspect of the movement motivically - not only the themes and other melodies that are heard, but also the background material.

Some revisions may still be made, but I believe this is ready to be declared a complete movement. Without further ado, here it is, in MIDI format:

Edit: Sibelius file added.

NEW on March 23, 2007 - added the 2nd movement! This movement is perhaps a bit more adventurous harmonically, but remains fairly compact as far as motivic structure goes. Also, there are some tie-ins to the first movement.

pianoquartet-mvmt2.sib

That's fantastic! Really excellent work.

I can barely thing of any suggestions.

One of them being I think the ending could have been a bit more final, or a bit more convincing.

I think it's safe to say this is the best piece of chamber music I've heard on YC.

Congrats on finishing :P

Okay, you've only heard me talk about this piece about 48378937983759 times, so I won't go on and on and allow others to speak their minds.

I'll just mention what I haven't before, a brief summary of the overall feelings I had on it with everything filled in.

Oh, and I can't help mentioning that I love that part of the transition at the end of the fifth minute again. I mentioned a transition, ahh!!

All right then, I was just finishing listening to it again. I assume you didn't attach a score since not all of the momvements are finished and you still want to put some finishing touches on it.

I agree that the ending is fine - leaving you wanting more, and I don't think any part of the movement is overly busy, I think that everything is pretty balanced overall. Not pretty, it is balanced.

I'm not really sure if I have any constructive criticism, you are so careful about the way you write anything that there's not much for me to nitpick. Besides, I want to hear all of the movements together in order to have any proper overall statements. Yes, I know that will probably be in 2017 :) :) but it'll be all the more worth it, right? (preparing for the big debut!)

Nice, I like it! :D I can sleep to that melody and some splendid dreams will come

d

This is nothing but amazing work, every second made me want more, and more, and more!

I can't wait to hear the rest!

-Kevin

Okay....here's a nice clear demonstration of my ignorance. :w00t: What instruments make up a piano quartet? (God, I'm an idiot - can't belive they let me in to do a masters...) Maybe the midi just sounds funny to me, but it's certainly not four pianos....is it?

Somebody slap me.

...

I might have to kill you for asking that question. *slaps* HOW DARE YOU CALL YOURSELF A MUSICIAN!

1 piano, 1 violin, 1 viola, and 1 cello. GOSH.[/b]

:blush: *hangs head in shame*

...

OK, for those who wanted to see a score... still needs a lot of cleanup and editing (especially string articulations and piano pedal), but here it is:

RRR's Hymn.MUS

pianoquartet_mvmt1_pianoscore.pdf

well, I havent read the previous posts, so forgive me if i repeat some things. It's nice that you are composing music while you are working on something else. And I can underestand that this took you a long time to finish.

Nice work. I liked the fact that you based the movement on motivic development. It takes a skill to handle the material well, and I think you managed that well. The form was also good, I never had a feeling that something didnt fit in. Everything seemed to be well in place in terms of form. The introduction was nice and I liked the way you made the transition to the main theme. It hapenned seemlesly. And the variations you made in the piano at the recapitulation was good that you didnt repeat exactly as before.

I didnt particulary enjoyed the harmonic vocabulary. But thats just me. I am not really into classical progressions and sequences. Your main theme sounded like built on a sequence. Sometimes the piano was sounding too simple to me. You could have made more of pianistic writing I think. For example, most of the time LH was 8th notes going up and down.

I dont know what else to say. Generally, I think that its a good piece of music. Very well written, exept the points that I mentioned.

-Inal

I didnt particulary enjoyed the harmonic vocabulary. But thats just me. I am not really into classical progressions and sequences. Your main theme sounded like built on a sequence. Sometimes the piano was sounding too simple to me. You could have made more of pianistic writing I think. For example, most of the time LH was 8th notes going up and down.

I'm working on that - before I started writing this quartet, I was extremely uncomfortable writing for piano. You can probably tell that I'm still not all that comfortable with it.

I'm working on that - before I started writing this quartet, I was extremely uncomfortable writing for piano. You can probably tell that I'm still not all that comfortable with it.

well ok, If you are not totally happy with it, you can always go back and make some adjustments. I am also not confortable at writing for piano, I found the best way is to analise some scores. Scriabin for example was a good teacher for me ! :o

Hi Andrew...

let me guess... you played some of the Faure piano quartets?

Nice to see such passion poured on the page without worrying about sounding out of date. I know I cant compose like this anymore... just cant bring myself to do it.

Man, you really like the leading tone, dontcha?? I remember that from your horn concerto a couple years ago

I like the structure, the continuous melody, the harmonies, and the solo instrument sections... I liked the development section around m. 98... and it looks like it would be fun to perform!

Welcome back, Beeri, are you planning to stick around?

Strangely enough, I've never even heard a Faure piano quartet...

If I get wrapped up in any discussions, I'll stick around...

I might have to kill you for asking that question. *slaps* HOW DARE YOU CALL YOURSELF A MUSICIAN!

1 piano, 1 violin, 1 viola, and 1 cello. GOSH.

Let's KILL him :angry:

:P

Btw andrew, I think I've heard it before. I mean haven't you posted this piece some where else. I'm pretty sure i commeted it once.

And about the ending, it is finished with style!

This piece is excellent :)

Andrew.

Congratulations on getting to this point with your work on this piece.

Your sense of orchestration and the textures you explore are the stronger parts of this work.

I

Well - I'm not actually trying to fit the piece into a genre/period. I'm writing only what I think feels right, which usually tends to fall somewhere between Schumann and Brahms. And it's odd that you should think that the melody is subservient to the chords, because I almost always write the melody before filling out chords... if it sounds like the chords are predominant, it's probably because the melody that I first came up with fits too closely into a chord progression. For all the time that I put into my compositions, my composing process still tends to be more intuitive than analytical.

Um, at measure 53, I'm not sure what you're talking about, because I don't see an F natural anywhere in the run?!

As for the G major 7th chord, it is intentional, and I'm aware that it's an unusual sound - but it just sounded right to me at the time, and still does. I believe I initially thought of it as more of a B minor chord, though it certainly ends up having the G major 7th effect. The closest analogue in the piece would be in measures 276-277, where I would be interested in knowing what you think of the fact that I'm briefly bringing the harmony to rest on an Eb major chord, en route to the dominant 7th of the original C minor key. I can't think of a common-practice justification (closest I can think of is a secondary VI chord, and even then it shouldn't resolve that way), yet it seems to work fine.

Well - I'm not actually trying to fit the piece into a genre/period. I'm writing only what I think feels right, which usually tends to fall somewhere between Schumann and Brahms. And it's odd that you should think that the melody is subservient to the chords, because I almost always write the melody before filling out chords... if it sounds like the chords are predominant, it's probably because the melody that I first came up with fits too closely into a chord progression. For all the time that I put into my compositions, my composing process still tends to be more intuitive than analytical.

Good - I

Not much time to comment on the comments, but:

54 - But it is a chord tone of D9...

56 - I'm really not sure myself whether to call it Bm or Gmaj7. When writing, I decided that the best solution was to leave it ambiguous. :blink:

119 - I thought of that viola part as a countermelody that appears in a measure that's rhythmically simple in the piano part...

218 - I wonder how much what I write is determined by my energy level; I find writing harmonically complex passages like this quite draining. 218-227 alone took me at least three weeks to write (doing it in ten-minute blocks doesn't help!).

257-267 - I honestly wasn't thinking about harmony here - I was trying to combine as many of my motives in this passage as I could. The piano plays a variation on the second theme; the violin and cello start out with the beginning of the first theme, and the strings segue into the violin and viola playing snippets of the descending quarter notes motive and a bit of the first theme.

Thanks for all the comments... as it turns out, I often find it interesting to examine my own music after I'm done writing it, to review and crystallize what I did that worked well or perhaps didn't work so well. After all, with the amount of spare time I have, doing composition exercises isn't an option...

54 - But it is a chord tone of D9...

This is what I'm talking about. Technically, there's nothing wrong with a D9, except every non-passing note up to that point, or following it for the next 100+ measures is part of anything more than a major chord or a dominant 7th chord. The 9th wouldn't sound nearly as out of place to my ears if you demonstrated a reason for it, either by continuing to use extensions (i.e. 9ths, 16ths, etc) or by using it as a marker to delineate some other significant change (most likely stylistic, because 9ths are outside of the style that you rigorously adhere to for the first 180 measures.

Mind you, this is just something that sounded out of place while I was listening. For me, the analysis only confirms what my ears hear, but if your ears are not offended, then obviously there is nothing wrong here and you can and should ignore my nit-pickyness. I hate to invoke rules when commenting on style, because contemporary compositions are... well, contemporary, and these "rules" are surely nothing more, if not even less than nothing more than guides... especially, when the composer is aware of what they are doing, which you do.

Regards, L

The closest analogue in the piece would be in measures 276-277, where I would be interested in knowing what you think of the fact that I'm briefly bringing the harmony to rest on an Eb major chord, en route to the dominant 7th of the original C minor key. I can't think of a common-practice justification (closest I can think of is a secondary VI chord, and even then it shouldn't resolve that way), yet it seems to work fine.

Actually, you have the C tone used often enough in that passage, it sounds more like a modulation between the Eb maj and C min. The last chord that fully sounds before the V7 is the C min chord, so there is no violation of common practice.

Now, here's my thoughts on the piece:

The Sonata-allegro form of this work is very loose. I kept listening for a second theme, and on the first run through, never thought I'd heard it. I definitely heard the recapitulation, but agian, a second theme didn't really seem to shine forth. It sounded to me as if you only had one theme instead of two. And your development section did not introduce any notable harmonic instability, which is quite surprising given that you seem to be saying that the style is akin to Schumann or Brahms.

Now, the opening theme is quite delicious. It sets a very plain scene, and the way the motivic material moves back and forth through the instruments and the theme is clever. I think you knocked the first fifty measures out of the park. Good job there, wouldn't change a note.

However, when we reach the quasi-transition in mesures 57-58, I feel that you begin to lose th elistener. At this point, we've fully absorbed your main theme and are ready to hear something new. But we have a brief loud interjection (that doesn't seem to serve any purpose), and we have more of the same. Were this a Theme and Variations, this would be fine (and in fact, certian parts of the next fifty measures are quite delicious, I particularly love melodic/harmonic line in measure 74).

Now, it seems to me that we finally reach the second theme just after measure 100. It is a nice theme, in the major key I see, and on second listening I can tell that it is the second theme. I think the reason I missed it the first time was because I had thought you'd bring in that material sooner.

I don't understand how the big buildup and drop off around measures 136-137 is supposed to work. It sounds far too abrupt, like an unanticipated change in subject. The little piano solo there is quite nice. But then you follow it up with another inexplicable 'tutti'. If you are trying to have the strings interrupt the piano, then you are succeeding. This can be done effectively, and has in the past. I'm just not sure it is here.

The remainder of the development material works, but it doesn't really grab me. It's just there. The music really doesn't get my attention again until we hit the recapitulation at measure 228. Now that's a recaptiluation! You really get all the instruments into it. The pianist has something interesting to do, and the motivic matieral works wonderfully. The chockablock chords in the piano are great! You maintain the excitement almost to the very end. It peters out for about ten measures, thne you pick it up again with your coda in measure 284.

The coda is good. While you might be able to give us a reprise of the second theme before you reach it, I think the ending does work well.

However, I think you do need to do a little bit more work to keep the piece as a whole from being too overwhelmed by your first theme (the harmonic structure of which pervades everything). Give us more of the major key melody, so that the minor doesn't become too much.

I very much enjoyed this though, and hope to hear more soon.

While I don't have the score in front of me to go through your comments (I'm at a computer that doesn't have Sibelius installed), I'd like to note that the intended second theme was in fact introduced by the cello in G minor, and as such, I do bring a variation of it back in the piano part before the coda....... I only realized much later that it was harmonically similar to the first theme, and actually was afraid some listeners might think of it as only a variation on the first theme. Are there any ways to make it stand out more, without rewriting that theme completely?

after listening to a few bars of this, I realised Brahms had risen from the grave and I rushed to put this MIDI file into Overture, set it to Kirk Hunter solo strings and the Kontakt 2 piano so i could really listen to it. I'm still recovering from the excitement of hearing something that, to me, is actually even more enjoyable than one or two at least of the old master's chamber works. The level of fluency is astonishing and though I could no doubt find things to grumble about if I really wanted, I don't want to at the moment. This is some achievement!

PS if you don't already have a reasonable audio rendering of this, I will happily create a file from my mockup and send you it if you like (I have not changed anything --merely tried to get reasonable overall levels though there are certainly some balance issues) .

Really, Andrew. I was impressed. WHY CAN'T YOU FINISH IT!!!!!!!!!

Jk. It usually takes me a while to finish my music too. Do you have an MP3 file of that? Midi annoys me.

PS if you don't already have a reasonable audio rendering of this, I will happily create a file from my mockup and send you it if you like (I have not changed anything --merely tried to get reasonable overall levels though there are certainly some balance issues) .

I didn't notice this earlier... no, I don't have any audio rendering of it, though I'm currently looking for a cellist to fill out a quartet to record the piece. Can you create a demo MP3?