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Hello all, here I am sharing this piece. It started in 2017, then I re-composed it the last year, and this is the result. Thanks for listening!

 

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1 hour ago, Gustav Johnson said:

Very good!

I'm just a little tempted to turn down the reverb, but the composition itself is nice 🙂 🙂

Gustav

 

Thanks 🙂 you could be right, I am lazy editing the reverb, and I had to chose one preset. Some were too “big cathedral”, others too “very small room”. I just picked the one in the middle lol 

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The piece is nice. It's easy to like it. What I don't like in this kind of pieces is the predictability. Some little changes would make great difference, for me, of course.

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4 hours ago, Luis Hernández said:

The piece is nice. It's easy to like it. What I don't like in this kind of pieces is the predictability. Some little changes would make great difference, for me, of course.

 

Thanks for your appreciation.  But I have to say that I disagree nevertheless (it is important for me to explain my point of view), I don’t think it is that predictable. Nobody could predict the end, or the melody itself with all its dimensions, or the breaking upward melody, among others. In any case, I think it also has something that is very important that worth to mention, which is musicality, it sounds alive, and also expressive, in my opinion of course, I think that’s what costed me the most to achieve, because the right decisions need to me made, and a lot of attention and your perception turned on the full is very important, I would say I consider that the most important and the harder thing to sculpt, more sometimes than the structure itself to me, as it must be to the service of the musicality (so the structure is always result of those decisions). In this case, It was like trying to create “the single of the album” (not that this is a hit or similar, but you get the idea), sometimes it is the simpler, because it must, but the background is bigger and harder than how it looks as the ideas must be the correct ones to sound original and catchy, without sacrificing too much expression and certain meta communication. I think it is not easy to work over a piece with that balance on mind. The repetition, on the other hand, is on purpose (if you refer to that), because I decided that the new key would be enough, and I also based this in music from other genres (I am so use to other genres, that I don’t see something wrong with repeating actually).

It is ok in any case, I respect your opinion, it is totally ok.

Rgds,

Edited by Donethur

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5 hours ago, Kayo Oliver said:

I liked the reverb... Sounds nice to me...

Congrats... It's a great piece

 

Thanks Kayo Oliver for your comment 🙂 I appreciate your time.

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@Donethur  Don't worry, it's just my opinion, not only is your music but with many music I hear today. When I say predictability I don't mean anticipating exactly the melody, but the harmonic, rhythmic or sectional patterns, which have been heard many many times in general.

And, it's not bad. It's the way you like it and the way you understand music.

On the contrary, many music I (or others) write seems chaotic or unpredictable and people don't like it at all.

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3 hours ago, Luis Hernández said:

@Donethur  Don't worry, it's just my opinion, not only is your music but with many music I hear today. When I say predictability I don't mean anticipating exactly the melody, but the harmonic, rhythmic or sectional patterns, which have been heard many many times in general.

And, it's not bad. It's the way you like it and the way you understand music.

On the contrary, many music I (or others) write seems chaotic or unpredictable and people don't like it at all.

 

Yes sure, I respect your opinion as I mentioned, clearly not all people have the same tastes.

I have to say that even if something was used before, a chord progression for example, it doesn’t mean something new and original could come out from that. Even the great masters used common chord progressions which resulted in innovative music. Even in the start of several melodies which usually start with the typical I-V I-V (then other chords are added), you can find a lot of variety and that’s basically what I find great, how you can harvest original music and musicality from the emotionally dead chords. I like tonal music basically. Predictable therefore is kinda subjective and depends on the scope you use. For example in your case, even if a piece is chaotic, it could be predictable (chaos and sonority predicted), or as you mention, some could think “too chaotic”, so you could find problems in every single piece of music: “too catchy?, but not too complex; too complex?, but not so catchy”, “Too chaotic”, “written in the language of the past”, “too modern”, etc. All music could be subject to a reprehensible statement, because there is no perfect music, as people are too different, and therefore in the decisions always something needs to be sacrificed, and therefore, some public is imminently lost.

I think all visions are respectable in any case, because that’s part of the richness in art: diversity. Of course, I also have my own opinion and I know very well what I don’t like and why, but I respect others and their tastes, because diversity and its acceptance is a fundamental value for a less controversial society (it sounded too political, isn’t it? lol).

Rgds and thanks again.

 

 

Edited by Donethur

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@Donethur  Of course. First, I appreciate the work behind any compositions. My taste, or whoever's, is another issue. I totally respect what anyone does or works on, or the style he/she uses. But it happens nothing if I express my preferences. It's not a question of your music, I apologize. I can't stand Mozart or Beethoven, not to say Haydn... and what? 

Edited by Luis Hernández

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1 hour ago, Luis Hernández said:

@Donethur  Of course. First, I appreciate the work behind any compositions. My taste, or whoever's, is another issue. I totally respect what anyone does or works on, or the style he/she uses. But it happens nothing if I express my preferences. It's not a question of your music, I apologize. I can't stand Mozart or Beethoven, not to say Haydn... and what? 

 

Well yes. But basically I think there are other topics for that, to talk about your preferences, and also honestly, I don’t see the point to mention a preference. I mean, I think most of us try to comment on those we feel we could contribute something. But if I don’t like the piece itself, I don’t think I could be useful mentioning it. Even a “like” from other person is useful, because it is encouraging. Imagine your music gets only comments like “I don’t like this style, it is too chaotic”, then what would be the point of those comments?. It is better to have a technical advise based on an error or technical issue, as questioning the decisions of the composer, or saying this is not your thing don’t add value (the first one makes the composer lose his/her subjectivity which is relevant in art in my opinion; the second would have no effect or, in contrast, a potentially negative effect). As you can have your opinion, I also can express mine, I guess it is fair enough. 🙂

I accept your apologize in any case, not a harsh thing. I just want to make clear why I reply. it is for describing better the reasons behind, because I see it relevant, and also, I see ok and normal to react over something as intime as your music (I think several would do it), because art is intrinsically linked to the composer/artist, as it comes from deep sides from his/her persona, it is an emergent phenomena of the personality and consciousness/biology for emotions (any change on that would result in other decisions and other music therefore), that’s why it is totally normal to react about it, we are humans after all 🙂

Finally I have the same opinion about Haydn. 🙂

Rgds,

Edited by Donethur

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1 hour ago, Donethur said:

Well yes. But basically I think there are other topics for that, to talk about your preferences, and also honestly, I don’t see the point to mention a preference. I mean, I think most of us try to comment on those we feel we could contribute something. But if I don’t like the piece itself, I don’t think I could be useful mentioning it. Even a “like” from other person is useful, because it is encouraging. Imagine your music gets only comments like “I don’t like this style, it is too chaotic”, then what would be the point of those comments?

So what you're saying is that we can mention our preferences, as long as our preferences are encouraging to the composer? I feel like that's unreasonable. Luis simply said that he wished it weren't as predictable and this apparently bothers you despite your statements to the contrary, as you've written three full-bodied posts now in your defense. I think what Luis was gently suggesting is for you to be more adventurous. This piece you've composed is well-written and sounds very nice. Not many people know how to do what you've done. However, it did follow the same chord progressions and rhythms throughout, and in that regard was quite "predictable." There is nothing inherently wrong with a piece being predictable, and I'm sure you realize this.

But problems arise when we think too highly of our compositions, substituting them for our own fractured egos. Criticisms of our works can feel like criticisms of our soul, and we tend to react accordingly. Now when someone says something even remotely detrimental about our work, it makes us uncomfortable or makes us feel personally attacked. So we do what anyone would naturally do in that case; we defend ourselves. But when we learn to value our true selves properly, we don't have to rely on our creative output to "make up the difference." We can view our works honestly, understanding that they're flawed in all the right ways—just like we are. We don't have to waste time defending the "flaws" in our works because we know it doesn't matter: the flaws make the work uniquely ours! (I'm not trying to imply that we shouldn't try to write better music, just that we shouldn't focus too much on where it went "wrong.")

If this is where you are, then I'm happy for you! But if you still feel too self-conscious about your works, then I do hope you'll learn the value in who you are rather than what you do.

In any case, I hope you keep composing. You're obviously good at what you do!

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2 hours ago, Tónskáld said:

So what you're saying is that we can mention our preferences, as long as our preferences are encouraging to the composer? I feel like that's unreasonable. Luis simply said that he wished it weren't as predictable and this apparently bothers you despite your statements to the contrary, as you've written three full-bodied posts now in your defense. I think what Luis was gently suggesting is for you to be more adventurous. This piece you've composed is well-written and sounds very nice. Not many people know how to do what you've done. However, it did follow the same chord progressions and rhythms throughout, and in that regard was quite "predictable." There is nothing inherently wrong with a piece being predictable, and I'm sure you realize this.

But problems arise when we think too highly of our compositions, substituting them for our own fractured egos. Criticisms of our works can feel like criticisms of our soul, and we tend to react accordingly. Now when someone says something even remotely detrimental about our work, it makes us uncomfortable or makes us feel personally attacked. So we do what anyone would naturally do in that case; we defend ourselves. But when we learn to value our true selves properly, we don't have to rely on our creative output to "make up the difference." We can view our works honestly, understanding that they're flawed in all the right ways—just like we are. We don't have to waste time defending the "flaws" in our works because we know it doesn't matter: the flaws make the work uniquely ours! (I'm not trying to imply that we shouldn't try to write better music, just that we shouldn't focus too much on where it went "wrong.")

If this is where you are, then I'm happy for you! But if you still feel too self-conscious about your works, then I do hope you'll learn the value in who you are rather than what you do.

In any case, I hope you keep composing. You're obviously good at what you do!

 

It is not unreasonable, because I provided you the backup of my opinión, a rational conclusion. Tell me then, to refute my arguments, which value it may add if the comment is negative from a subjective perspective?. I think I have the right to have a dissident opinion over a criticize, and if a person is educated enough should respect that. It is simple, I would say "dont comment my music if you dont like the style, because it was writen for other people then", it is because I simply dont see the point in doing it. Imagine, if I start commenting "sorry I dont like this style" "sorry i would made the melody again this is not the kind of melodies I like", I am sure a friend here would simply defend that person., I dont care if it is educated or not, what I care is the message itself and the insistence in having me shut up and trying to restrict my freedom to talk about what they dont like about my music, a refutation. Why do you think I cannot express my own opinion without being considered arrogant by a person who dont even know me?. 

You are assuming wronly, because I know where I am in the space time, you are assuming about my reasons behind (fractured ego) and I would ask you not to do it please. I know my piece is not at the level of Beethoven, for example, but that was never the intention. There is a public for that (although I have a lot of different pieces which are way different). Also, at the end it is normal, unless you dont love all the work you spent and you dotn feel that connected with your work. Beethoven:

”Beethoven was well aware of its total lack of subtlety, but was nonetheless sensitive to its critics: “What I scraggy is better than anything you could ever think.””

Of course it may be too harsh, and way harsher than me, but the point is that it is normal. I think we must believe in I what we do. So you would tell him “why you don’t accept negative comments”?. It is normal and historical even for the greatest (not saying I am great, by the way).

In any case, thanks for the positive comments and sentences I can read among your message, I simply disagree with part of it, because I think I have right to issue my thoughts. Otherwise, then I dont see the point in remaining in a site where I would feel limited and repressed to be really honest.

Edited by Donethur

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To be able to critically validate your own work is probably one of the most important (and difficult) things for a composer to learn. And in this context, it is important to be able to validate and learn from negative comments. A lot of people seem to be only looking for praise, which is a kind of self-deception.  

 A good rule is:  Take your work seriously but don´t take yourself seriously.       

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1 hour ago, panta rei said:

To be able to critically validate your own work is probably one of the most important (and difficult) things for a composer to learn. And in this context, it is important to be able to validate and learn from negative comments. A lot of people seem to be only looking for praise, which is a kind of self-deception.  

 

 A good rule is:  Take your work seriously but don´t take yourself seriously.       

 

 

I see your point but it starts from the premise I don’t accept feedback, which is not true. But I think it is ok not to agree with all of them, I have my own criteria too. Let’s say you are right, but not about my actual way of thinking.

Check here:

Or here:

As you can see, I have received and I am open to reveive feedback very well. And I am very critic about my own work, I know I need way more practice, but i try to select what I think it would work with what I want to achieve. 

cheers!

Edited by Donethur

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7 hours ago, Donethur said:

I see your point but it starts from the premise I don’t accept feedback, which is not true. But I think it is ok not to agree with all of them, I have my own criteria too. Let’s say you are right, but not about my actual way of thinking.

Check here:

Or here:

As you can see, I have received and I am open to reveive feedback very well. And I am very critic about my own work, I know I need way more practice, but i try to select what I think it would work with what I want to achieve. 

cheers!

 

I never said, nor anticipated in any way that you don´t want feedback!  When I look at your reactions above on some of the feedback from Louis and Tónskáld, I think it is more a question about how you deal with negative feedback. 

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1 hour ago, panta rei said:

I never said, nor anticipated in any way that you don´t want feedback!  When I look at your reactions above on some of the feedback from Louis and Tónskáld, I think it is more a question about how you deal with negative feedback. 

 

You say you don’t like how I deal with negative feedback, but I showed you positive reactions, which you decide to simply skip, why?. It is simply that I dont have to accept all feedback and I expect an educated person understand that sh*t. Why is it so hard to understand?.

Luis does the same and nobody makes this big scandal, see the image, what’s the difference with what I did?. I explained my point of view, the background of my decision, etc. I strongly think it affects the fact he is an old and participative member while I am not (herd effect). But you are not being objective, as you are not considering any of my arguments and reasons.

I am getting bored repeating the same sh*t again and again while nobody is even reading it.

7859C6D8-DB48-41A8-9D67-656D86ADCE81.png

Edited by Donethur

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Well, this thread went way out there. I dont see how Luis's subjectively based comment on this work got so warped. It is what it is though. Here's a bit of wisdom from an older member of this site: when someone just posts audio of their work (and no score), then it's a good indication that they dont want feedback. That said, I think emotions should be set aside and claws retracted. We are colleagues regardless of our personal views on musical aesthetic.

That said, I'd love to have an honest discussion about predictability and musicality in the discussions forum. Fascinating topics.

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3 hours ago, jawoodruff said:

Well, this thread went way out there. I dont see how Luis's subjectively based comment on this work got so warped. It is what it is though. Here's a bit of wisdom from an older member of this site: when someone just posts audio of their work (and no score), then it's a good indication that they dont want feedback. That said, I think emotions should be set aside and claws retracted. We are colleagues regardless of our personal views on musical aesthetic.

That said, I'd love to have an honest discussion about predictability and musicality in the discussions forum. Fascinating topics.

 

Well spoken! It is really useless to continue this discussion. And I wish Donethur all the best with his composing.

Your suggestion about discussing predicability and musicality is definitely worthwhile. These are extremely complex issues, but very interesting!

 

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