do you use your instrment as an aid while composing?

I just started composing, and I wanted to know if u guys have your instruments at hand when composing? or just hum it out in your head? I can play the piano, and is it better to compose with the aid of your instrument?

Wish someone will gimme some advice.. :D

EDIT: I forgot to add that I want to compose piano solos.. silly me

is it better to compose with the aid of your instrument?

This depends on how advanced you want your compositions to be. If you are going to compose a simple piano piece, you don't really need the instrument. I am sure you can do just fine harmonizing a simple melody without the aid of a piano.

However, if you want to create more complex or advanced piano solos, you definitely need to use the piano for composition. If you have access to the instrument, don't compose your serious works without it. By composing on the piano, you make sure your piece is playable. Furthermore, you can be much more creative when improvising. Actually, this kind of improvisation is much more intelligent than simply "improvising for an audience". You basically play a line until you feel it is acceptible to put on paper. I used to compose without aid of an instrument, and my compositions were not as creative, but once I got my 88 fully weighted keyboard, you can definitely tell my compositions became much, much better.

Thanks for the advice, chopin..

Another question. When u compose, do u first compose the melody then place some accompaniments to it or do u compose the accompaniment first?(for piano solos)

This depends on how advanced you want your compositions to be.

ACtually I'm quite like u...

When I compose with my piano, I keep using the same 4 or 5 basic chords over & over again....

anyone going to answer my second question? :D

Can't answer for piano solos, since I don't think I'm ever going to write a piano solo. But my composition process, which is very melody-driven, is as follows:

* Come up with one or several melodic themes, and work out possible underlying harmonies.

* Think of how they would fit together in the context of a single piece. I'm already thinking about overall form at this point.

* Develop each theme, keeping in mind the final harmonic "goal" of each segment of the piece (basically the key that the next part is in). I'm still thinking mainly in terms of melody at this point, though I'm keeping in mind where the chords are going to lead. As I go, I usually write melody first, then fill in everything else.

* Put it all together, smooth out transitions, etc.

But again, you're going to find that everyone composes differently.

I usually write melody first, then fill in everything else.

But again, you're going to find that everyone composes differently.

Or do you mean that you write down all the melodies, work out their basses for each theme, then string them together?

Sorry for all the questions but this is my first time composing music, and I don't know where or how to start. :D

I didn't realize you were just starting out. If you are just starting out, stick to whatever you are more comfortable with. I would say get the hang of composing first. If you are not creative at the instrument, forget my advice and do it by hand.

If however, you see yourself a serious composer for piano, after you get better at composing by hand, try again at the piano. You probably will be much more creative as your composition matures.

When u compose, do u first compose the melody then place some accompaniments to it or do u compose the accompaniment first?(for piano solos)

This should apply to any type of music not just piano solos. Anyway, do what you like. There is no rule. For me, I find it easier to put everything down at once. I find it too hard to come up with the left hand alone, and too hard to come up with the right hand alone, but thats me.

Wow... u guys are real helpful... :P Thanks for helping...

Well for me, most of my serious compositions include the piano. But once I get to that point when I'm swept up in the music I don't need any instrument with me.

Though when I compose for a piano solo for me to play infront of everybody, I'm always going from the livingroom to the computer room. !!!!!!!!!!1 lots of exercise!(I have a keyboard, but that can only get you so far on a piano solo)

ok, i need to say something... if you are writing a piano concerto, you should write some parts with the piano... i think.... it´s relative.. if you are more a composer than an orchestrator.. then I don´t think you need to use an instrument to write... but when you orchestrate something... you have to know the instrument.. so you don´t have to PLAY the instrument but you definitly have to IMAGINE if what you are playing is possible... let´s say... if you write for violin and you give the parts to a violin player... before you give him his parts you need to think and read the music imagining a violinist playing it... you have to know the range of the instrument and everything....

I use my guitar to write FILM MUSIC and then I separate the parts and assign the notes imagining the instruments.... I mostly play jazz, so I sometimes write jazz music with my guitar.. but... I also have the music on paper for "guitar" and then I start to "arrange"... and that I do without the guitar... I have written several works without an instrument... just with the pencil and I feel more comfortable.. but some things I can´t hear that well with my head and I have to go to the guitar...

a problem I have, is that I can read and hear in my head 2 lines of music... but not more than that... but I do read "chords" and hear them really well without the instrument... so, it´s relative.. it depends on you... Gustav Mahler started writing with his hummin g.. and then he learned the piano... Franz Schubert, almost never used an instrument to write.

I have a friend who writes without an instrument handy. It always blows me away! i mean I play trombone, euphonium and guitar and sing alot, but I am not very good at piano, but I find that when I pick a key and doodle around for a while in front of a piano I find several striking things...I aslo try to experiment with unconventional chords, because it is my belief that quartals, quintals and extended tertian chords add a surreal beauty to a piece. But its hard, I try to start with an idea about what I want then doodle on the piano in that mood. Do I use trombone or guitar...no. It might be a good idea. Just do what suits.

Also when getting your start be content with the same three chords...get comfortable with them, leaern their limits and flexibilities then move on. Bach wrote tons of music with mostly 3 chords as did Mozart. Play around with inversions of chords and things....

I hope this helps

I find that I can write much better stuff when I am on the piano when I just let loose but have a hard time starting on a peice of blank paper without instrument and coming up with something. I think I have a hard time imagining the notes without hearing them. But I guess its because I haven't had much training on composition, getting a Harmony and Counterpoint book soon though.

Studying harmony and counterpoint helps, but the best way to get better at hearing things in your head is by practicing dictation and/or sight-singing.

I always sit at my piano, close my eyes, pick major or minor and press any key and go ahead in that key signature. I always record myself playing because as you're doodling (which I do best :D) there are some great ideas that can come through and as you know, they're easy to forget especially if you're not concentrating. To have them recorded is a big asset. And even if you don't have a microphone, get your mp3 player or iPod or nick one from your sister's (or brother's bedroom) and record away. Once I have a theme, say around 8 bars, its just a case of reworking it until it's in the best shape possible and then develop all the way, change notes, major/minor and so on.

I understand the thought of writing 'a la style de X' (i.e. writing something imagining the instrument). It does work I guess but if you have the instrument at hand and can either play or have heard what it can do, you could loose out a bit. I suggest, if you're interested in orchestration and orchestral writing, get some scores by well known composers. I'd tend not to go for classical eras because it was during the romantic and later eras that instrumental technique improved and this technique is the most closest to today's world. Have a look at scores by Tchaikovsky, Rimsky-Korsakov, Berlioz, Debussy and so on. Wagner is also very good especially in his operas because there is a wide spectrum of ideas and orchestration. Keep your eyes open to everything!!

For scores, check out www.mutopiaproject.org or www.free-scores.com or buy from amazon.com (cheapest place to buy in all amazon shops)

I to also use a piano to help me compos any music I am writing. Also the music programs hlep to in some points. :(

I used to use the piano as a guide but I came to realize that what I was hearing in my head is far more advanced than anything I've written down so far. I've noticed a pattern in my musical compositions that the beginnings are always better than the rest of my work because I start thinking of something and then rush to the piano to play it out. Then I have that and I start thinking of how to add to it. Many great composers have said that you should have the entire piece in your head before you start writing. I haven't composed anything for about a month (other than some quick computer music with some programs I got but nothing serious) because I'm trying to read some books about melody writing and counterpoint and harmony in hopes of improving my skill in getting whats in my imagination out as a work of art. The melody writing I think is the easiest for me. Basically I feel using an instrument as an aid limits me so I want to start going on my internal... umm... voice?... rather than playing stuff over and over and and adding to it.

For me, composition, improvisation, performance, and the instrument are all inseperable as all of my compositions (with the exception of a few small ones written in Finale) are entirely improvised.

It is a skill well worth developing...eventually you will be able to improvise counterpoint, progressions, rhythms, form, everything all spontaneously.

I would personally reccommend developing improvisation, as it seems to be the rarest form of composition, but it was heavily employed by all the great composers (except perhaps Berlioz) so what does that tell you?

Finally because you want to write piano solos I think improvisation may be a good path to explore. Check out my article here on youngcomposers.com for some ideas

http://www.youngcomposers.com/articles/Spo...s-Improvisation

if you want to chat more about it I love encouraging people and helping people get more out of their improvisation. My email address is in the article. Good luck!!

Usually only my piano pieces are written at the piano, and not even all of those. The rest all happens in my head and on paper.

I have occasionally come up with some good things while playing other instruments - I came up with the theme for the opening movement of my F-sharp minor String Quartet while playing the violin. That quartet, written when I was 17, took a year solid to write and ended up being the most expansive piece I've ever written (an hour long) - even my symphonic and concerted works come nowhere near it. But I tried to impress beyond my abilities, and it embarrasses me now.

My instrument is a must when notating. Sometimes I record myself singing a tune, but if I'm going to write it down or input it in a computer program, my guitar is absolutely essential, although I can fill in some small harmonies without it.

I don't really write a whole lot of classical and whatnot like you guys do, but I do write a lot of prog rock/prog metal, so i think the way I do things can relate since the genres share some of the same complexities. I generally write entirely off the top of my head. I sit down, and just type notes into the sequencer i use*. Then, after everything is written, I will learn it on my guitar and anything that isn't convenient or possible to play will get modified so that it IS possible.

*I use guitar pro 4.0. I KNOW, scoff scoff right? Its got a much easier interface for me because I can simply use the computer keyboard for it and just type things in. No mouse required.

Oh, heck yes. I cannot just sit down and compose from my brain. I usually get all my ideas from improvising on the piano. If I like something than I develope it. I kind of input the music into Finale and develope on the piano all at the same time.

i agree completely with caltech violinist.

when you have learnt how to sing all the 12 notes in music you do not need an instrument to compose with.and especially when you know the melodic devices that composers use to develop a theme you definately dont need an instrument.the great composers didnt need their instruments in order to compose music. most of the time they wrote well away from them because when you write with an instrument your fingers always go where they have been before.You end up rehashing old lines that you already know.think about that for a moment.you learn all these tunes by heart ,and you put them to memory,and then when you want to compose your own stuff you take bits and peices from what you know and you alter the tempo and add a couple of notes here and there and you eventually come up with something.but you are just rehashing your influence.

when you write on paper alone you are detached from your influence and the familiarity of your fingers to fall in recognizable places .you are essetially free to compose NEW stuff.

you end up with lines that you never would have played had you improvised it on the instrument..

the great composers and the ones of this century know this and they detach themselves completely from their instrument when they write.

if you really think about it,your instrument is like a crutch. you rely on it so you can hear what your fingers are doing,but your fingers are more or less moving around familiar teritory.your fingers are a product of your influence.

if you have played nothing but chopin all your life and you try to write a song by improvising on the piano,the most likely outcome will be a tune in the style of chopin.not something new.it will echo your influence.

thats why many composers know this and they refuse to write at their instrument.

I use my midi keyboard when composing (at my computer, obviously) and occasionally I'll use real piano downstairs when not using the computer.

I find that without a piano, I can't get the melodies right....I'm getting better, but for the most part I rely on my isntrument a lot. many times, though, I just use it to find out what it is exactly I hear in my head that I want to come next...whether it be a melodic line or an accompaniement line (ugh...so late...hard to type :happy:) I usually need something to help my figure out the actual notes.

My improvisation-style compositions require the Piano as a must, but my family is always there to help me with the "Quartets" and "Duets".

For example, my sister and I make Flute Duets for the Colege, my Mother helps me with Piano Harmonization, my father serves me well as inspiration and my Grandmother (who is a real qualified piano composer, though she can't play the piano) acts like my teacher.

For everything you must have an instrument. You can't start composing without any knowledge about the instrumentation.