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Right. I’ve always thought that, from our current perspective, it’s great to be familiar with all kinds of earlier systems and languages, including, of course, those of the 20th and 21st centuries. And that these foundations can be used however one wishes. Sometimes it’s good to try writing in the style of Mozart, or Debussy, or Webern, and so on… Especially when you’re learning. But when it comes to composing, I think you have to give free rein to your creativity and use elements from the systems that resonate with you at that moment. Lately, I’ve been delving a bit deeper into Stravinsky’s rotational matrices from his later period, and I find them fascinating, so I’ve incorporated them into some of the pieces I’m working on. Best regards.

Thx im really glad you enjoyed the piece. Yea i think im just overly cautious about making my composition the nest it can be which includes readability. Also this isnt my first 12 tone piece ive written several and id consider myself a 12 tone composer. Yes I do break certain guidelines as I let my ear guide me as I compose and structure the piece on the piano. I recently composed a piano piece which is more traditional, influenced by Webern, and Dallapiccola.

Hello I’d like to comment on the first piece. I think it’s a very interesting, beautiful and original work. The impression I get is that in some parts it’s as if you had two separate works (the choir and the string quartet). In the first section (which is then repeated), some of the lines played by first and second violins become very active and chromatic, and either get a bit lost, or I don’t feel they quite fit together. I think section B is more balanced in that respect, as the strings tend to underline or accentuate the melody more.

Hello Firstly, I’d like to say that I think it’s a brilliant piece and I’ve really enjoyed it. I’m just as drawn to modern languages as I am to the classical ones. As for the notation you’ve suggested, I think it’s fine as it is. In this context, as long as it’s clear, whether or not there are enharmonic alterations is a secondary consideration. I’m not sure what your intention was with this piece – whether it was to draw closer to the style of expression of that Second Viennese School, or rather to use a highly chromatic language in your own way. I say this because, although the absence of stable tonal centres is evident, the way this quintet is written departs from the typical characteristics of expressionism. Things that I believe are not characteristic (and I’m not saying this is either better or worse): the use of ‘homophony’, of several parallel lines—some doubled, others at different intervals. Expressionism, when it employs chamber ensembles, is essentially contrapuntal and pointillistic. There are sections that have that effect to a greater extent. Composing within this system is by no means easy. Many people think you simply take a twelve-tone row or whatever and start placing notes, inverted rows, retrograde rows and so on… But no. The tricky bit is mastering the language to the point where you know exactly what you’re doing, primarily to control the moments of tension and release. Furthermore, cadences – not understood in terms of the functional tonal system – are also important.

Hi @Martynas123 ! You expand each phrase of the Diabelli Waltz with different variations so it's not just one variation there! I would rather use each of the element for one whole variation instead of using 3 different elements in the same variation. Thx for sharing. Henry

Hi @elmarad40 ! It does sound chaotic and dark to me esp. with the vocal line. I would want the ending to be more affirmatively dark instead of just ending halfway in D minor, probably 1 more climax before ending with an affirmative perfect cadence in D minor. Thx for sharing. Henry

Hi @MinGry ! I will continue with my comment. In the 2nd mov, there's the same issue with modulation as in 1st mov, which is you don't have the dominant preparation for the new C major before getting into the key in b.15, as mere repetition of a key doesn't signify the modulation. The harmonic progression for b.16-23 is I-V-IV and then back to I, which is not in the style with the V followed by IV. The IV will be better substitued by a ii-V. For the 3rd mov, the rhythmic drive is nice. B.12-15's bassline and b.68-69 RH have too many parallel fifths which will be out of style. The contrasting G major passage can end in perfect cadence before going back to tonic C major. Thx for sharing! Henry

Hi everyone, This composition that i present here is small in duration 1:30 minutes. It is called "Spiral Into Darkness". It is based on a new composition that i wrote firstly in the piano. It has many dark themes and melodies, which with the usage of choirs sound ethereal and otherworldy. There is also usage of percussion in an avant-garde sense. You can imagine a dark passage with a spiral staircase leading to lower and lower parts, which reflect the inner fields of the listener. I would like to hear about your opinions about it and your reviews. Spiral Into Darkness Thank you, Lampros Marantos

I've also read from several orchestration books that the lowest register of a double reed instrument including oboe, English Horn and Bassoon are all more difficult to control, and it's much more difficult to play lower than mp in the low register. Given the ethereal mood of the piece I agree with your treatment to use English Horn instead of 2nd oboe. Also I think it's quite common to have at least 1 Englisn Horn in every orchestra so I think that won't be a big problem in practice. Henry

Hi Mark, I always used to write lots of material for low oboe; but have had it repeatedly drummed into me that I should use English horn instead. So it's interesting you disagree. There seems to be a very widely held view that the lowest notes on the oboe are too obtrusive, especially in the hands of an amateur musician. I've heard this from the conductor of the orchestra I work with, as well as my tutor, and a bunch of other composers. Anyhow, I'll bear in mind what you say for the future. Alex.

Yes there is a 2nd movement, thx for pointing out to add slurs there. I mainly wanted to focus on the spelling on the 1rst movement, so I can take the insight and bring it to the other movement.

Sorry - I was confused - I thought the score you provided was a concert pitch score. It seems your mp3 has more material than the score does - are these the beginnings of a 2nd movement? There's some more things concerning articulation that I noticed like for example here: I think the notes that aren't staccato in the above passage should definitely be slurred for clarity of performance - otherwise, in sight-reading that's something that would be easy to miss. I know you include legato and slurs in many other places throughout the piece so I'm puzzled why you forgot them here. Yes - I totally agree there. I was mistaken in my whole discussion before as I was reading the score as a concert pitch score. Musically speaking my only critique is that, since the whole piece is at the same tempo, there aren't any changes in character within the duration of the piece. The whole piece comes across as a sort of 12-tone invention with many recurring and recognizable rhythmic and melodic motifs. It is interesting as that, but I think it could be so much more if there were changes of character for each different motif. I enjoyed listening nonetheless and thanks for sharing the recording!

It autocorrected!!!!

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Hi thx for the feedback, we usually try and avoid B#, and especially FX. Ik the 2nd Vietnamese school used them but ive been told by my Prpfessors not to use those spellings. Also yes the piece does have some tonal moments, but that's more for color. So i try nt to base spelling on the horizontal movement but the vertical. There's two many parts where id be making weird spelling choices if I did that. As for the piece being transposed I thought thats how the players read the parts? I do also have a C score obviously. Also heres the musescore mockup audio if u wanna hear it, like I said its done. Gentle Winds mp3

Hi @Rafael Avila ! First off, I don't know if it is customary to use a transposed score for serial works. Perhaps due to the dissonant textures and lack of key center it is preferrable to a transposed score? I personally prefer transposed scores because then you see exactly what the player sees and the logic of the enharmonics is different and customized. Btw, would you provide an mp3 of the piece as well? I've noticed from the score that some parts of it might even be perceived as tonal. Now to picking at the enharmonics. In measure 3 you have the flute playing this: Since you have a leap here of a major 7th I would spell the notes in this measure as C#, B#, A#, Fx. And since the part continues in the next measure to D# and B it makes more sense (to me) to continue using sharps here. You might think that since the harmony underneath that is basically D minor, that using your spellings would be more logical in that context. That could be true, and I wouldn't blame you for keeping it the way you have it now. But it also depends on how devoid of key the piece actually is. Is this just a short moment of quasi-tonality in the midst of atonal surroundings? Or do various key centers actually play a part in the piece and how it will be perceived by the listener? On a cursory glance at just the beginning of the score it doesn't seem particular dissonant or atonal and uses lots of consonances and octave doublings. Like I said, I am no 12-tone serial connoisseur but this seems like a no-no for a serial work. Basically - if the piece is tonal here and there, adhere to tonal voice-leading rules in those situations. But if the piece is more devoid of a tonal center then spell the pitches as logically as possible within each individual voice regardless of what the other voices are doing in a sense. That's how I would do it. Thanks for sharing and I'd be stoked to hear this piece!

My reason for using the English horn, is that oboes can sound quite harsh and intrusive in their low range. A bit like a duck! So I thought an English horn would have a more pleasant timbre in that range. Alex this really is a misunderstanding of how an Oboe works! Let's throw out the meme about DUCKS! The lower range/register can be as beautiful as the upper range. (just ask Dvorak). The English horn in this orchestration will not add too much. It does not have the penetration ... it is better used a solo instrument or in a small ensemble. Please no more duck jokes! Mark

Hi I composed this Wind Quintet, its 12 tone and I was wondering if anyone could help with checking the spelling. The piece itself is done and my main concern is now making it as readable as possible. The score is also transposed. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1z2Rklc0NyWTGlxcjtitSqk2fFByDzm_f/view?usp=drivesdk

Thanks Henry! I'm really pleased you like this work, because I wasn't sure it was any good. I actually tried to use con sord. on the violins; but then I discovered the little CTRL-T speaker thingy has disappeared. So I can't access that setting anymore. Seems to be some kind of bug within MuseScore, and it only manifested after the latest update. Weirdly it's only affecting this project. When I load other projects, the little speaker comes back. Not sure how to put this right? I guess some of those notes are probably too high for the violins without using harmonics; though I haven't actually checked. Glad you like the bassoons combined with harp, as I wasn't sure about that orchestration. Hopefully they can play those big jumps across the break; but I'm not 100% sure about that either. My time signatures are a bit all over the place in this piece, and I will be simplifying those at some point. Thanks again for your review! Alex.

Many thanks for listening Mark. The doubled oboes actually just come from my standard orchestral template. I was too lazy to correct the staff label! So I only envisage a single oboe playing most of the time. My reason for using the English horn, is that oboes can sound quite harsh and intrusive in their low range. A bit like a duck! So I thought an English horn would have a more pleasant timbre in that range. You're probably right about the bass clarinet. I just thought it might blend better with the regular clarinets.

I entered an international competition in Italy. How do you think this piece would be perceived in the Italian vocal music composition competition scene? Is there anyone familiar with how works like this are evaluated in Italy? It has never been premiered with live instruments, never been published, and has never won any awards. This is my first time participating in a major competition, so I'm not really sure how it all works.

You can use this thread as a feed of your progress. Then, when the piece is definitely finished and finalized you can either start a new topic or add the finished version to your first post by editing it. 👍

I assume, to post a new edition of the work I may just send a new message? Or shall I change the topic-starting one? Not sure about that and sorry if I mess something up. For now here's the new version: Longing for Past Times.mp3 Longing for Past Times.pdf

That's a separate technique. The xylophonist I wrote this for can only really play two mallet style. Four mallet is more common for vibraphone. As for the piano countermelodies or solos -- nothing is set in stone as for this composition, so I will add a few of those shortly. Thanks for your feedback and advice!

Hi @MinGry ! It's a really good attempt on a Classical sonatina style and I think you capture the style. I think for the 1st movement you can pay more attention on voice leading and harmony. In b.12 the G major melody is played on top of a C major chord which would be out of style. I think the modulation to G major in b.13 is not successful because you don't introduce V/V before modulating, you are only repeating the G major chord and suddenly have the music enters G major. Usually the music either have V/V chord before getting to V, or have an imperfect cadence ends with a medial ceasura before going to the dominant key. Forb.30, 32, 34 and 35 I will have F# instead of F natural of the semiquaver figure. Thx for sharing and I will check the remaning movements. Henry