Devil_May_Care

Hi Guys,

Long time since i've posted because i've been trying to learn how to use some new software.

3. VERSION 3. UPDATE: THANKS EVERYONE FOR YOUR REALLY HELPFUL AND CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM; IT REALLY PUSHED ME TO THINK SERIOUSLY ABOUT MIXING AND MASTERING. I THINK I'M NOW PRETTY SATISFIED WITH HOW THIS IS SOUNDING...BUT SOMETIMES YOU CAN'T HEAR PROBLEMS ON YOUR OWN PROJECT. BELOW IS THE LATEST VERSION

http://www.box.net/shared/rumlm6h1aq

So lj

What new software did you pick up?

The piece sounds real good but of course it will benefit from some mastering.

I also always post a piece before it is completely finished. I just now posted what I hope is the finished take of Ice Castles Of Ganymede. It took me forever to get the levels right in it, so I know what work is still ahead for you.

Very nice work in this.

Ron

So lj

What new software did you pick up?

The piece sounds real good but of course it will benefit from some mastering.

I also always post a piece before it is completely finished. I just now posted what I hope is the finished take of Ice Castles Of Ganymede. It took me forever to get the levels right in it, so I know what work is still ahead for you.

Very nice work in this.

Ron

Yeh.... My least favourite bit of the process, but I suppose the most rewarding once it's done.

I used Vienna VSL SE, Storm Drum 2, and some synths that came with Logic. Some really nice sounds once you spend the time getting to grips with the room for expression in them. Only thing is they are recorded dry, so I have a lot of work to do on getting the right reverb and panning etc...

Not a bad start. It really needs the mastering you mentioned and some volume and velocity work. It doesn't have that big bang feel that it is destined to have. Nice instrumentation and arrangement. I'm not sure I like the sound of the synths you used. They seem very cheap and fake which doesn't fit with the fairly good Vienna sample you are using. The orchestra instruments sound good though and will be captivating when the mastering work is done.

Nice work so far. Keep it up!

I like what hear ^.^

I look forward to hearing more works from you.

Hi guys, i've mixed and mastered this track now...hopefully sounding more palatable.

Cheers,

L

Not bad, but I don't think it's mixed good enough yet. Stormdrum (which doesn't need mixing, it comes pre-mixed and everything) clearly sounds better here than the other stuff you've mixed (VSL). VSL needs a lot of careful mixing to sound good. Your goal is to make this sound like one big ensemble, not many different libraries.

Also the main melody sounds a bit like the one from Where Da Hood At. :laugh:

I agree with Max on this one, the different ensembles don't seem to occupy the same space.

Also, look into playing with the expression and volume curves in the MIDI to make your orchestral elements more expressive. They aren't living up to their potential for humanistic expression.

Otherwise, not bad!

Not sure what "Where Da Hood at" is...maybe i'll google.

Think you maybe right on making on all sit better together...to some extent. I don't like most of SD out of the box so I ended up EQing the samples.. but the trouble for getting a good mix i'm finding is that SD is wet and VSL is dry.

What process do you guys use when mixing? Would you try and get one instrument spot on and then try to build around it? Or would you start with something like the SD samples and try to sonically match the sound of your orchestral instruments? Probably I was too ambitious with this little project since I got VSL, SD and Logic studio all at the same time and just treated this as an experiment....I'm not getting the impression that I should begin mixing straight away rather than leaving it to a stand alone last stage.

In terms of expression, what do you suggest for VSL then? I've used the Xfader, velocity and volume controls aplenty.

Ta.

I'm using SD on a piece right now with VSL and some other stuff. It seems to blend quite well with my 480L IR's.

480L IR's do work quite well with VSL. I hear traces of Elfman in this. Very cool piece.

I'm using SD on a piece right now with VSL and some other stuff. It seems to blend quite well with my 480L IR's.

You know what i've just discovered something really frustrating! I hope maybe you can help Max since you seem a whiz at VSL

I'm using VSL in Logic 8 and I have been using the learn function on the Velocity Cross fader so I can use my midi keyboard to control the Xfade levels. When I recorded each track I recorded the Xfades, which was fine. HOWEVER, HAving now gone back to each track I have found that the Xfade keeps turning off so there is no expression other than volume control...hence the less than humanistic nature of some sections - How on earth do I ensure that Xfade stays on ALL tracks? My 2nd problem is that I cannot find the Xfade data anywhere in the midi editing window because it just has the standard Volume, Pan, Velocity etc... data there. I looked under the automation editors and could not find it there either.... HELP! This has had me perplexed for hours now!

Thanks in advance.

480L IR's do work quite well with VSL. I hear traces of Elfman in this. Very cool piece.

Cheers, what is 480L IR?

Ta

You know what i've just discovered something really frustrating! I hope maybe you can help Max since you seem a whiz at VSL

I'm using VSL in Logic 8 and I have been using the learn function on the Velocity Cross fader so I can use my midi keyboard to control the Xfade levels. When I recorded each track I recorded the Xfades, which was fine. HOWEVER, HAving now gone back to each track I have found that the Xfade keeps turning off so there is no expression other than volume control...hence the less than humanistic nature of some sections - How on earth do I ensure that Xfade stays on ALL tracks? My 2nd problem is that I cannot find the Xfade data anywhere in the midi editing window because it just has the standard Volume, Pan, Velocity etc... data there. I looked under the automation editors and could not find it there either.... HELP! This has had me perplexed for hours now!

Thanks in advance.

I use SONAR and Kontakt and have never encountered something like that before. I'm afraid I can't help you here, sorry. :(

Cheers, what is 480L IR?

Ta

Impulse responses (for convolution reverb plugins) taken from the legendary Lexicon 480L. :thumbsup:

You know what i've just discovered something really frustrating! I hope maybe you can help Max since you seem a whiz at VSL

I'm using VSL in Logic 8 and I have been using the learn function on the Velocity Cross fader so I can use my midi keyboard to control the Xfade levels. When I recorded each track I recorded the Xfades, which was fine. HOWEVER, HAving now gone back to each track I have found that the Xfade keeps turning off so there is no expression other than volume control...hence the less than humanistic nature of some sections - How on earth do I ensure that Xfade stays on ALL tracks? My 2nd problem is that I cannot find the Xfade data anywhere in the midi editing window because it just has the standard Volume, Pan, Velocity etc... data there. I looked under the automation editors and could not find it there either.... HELP! This has had me perplexed for hours now!

Thanks in advance.

I'm on Cubase, so I don't know if this will entirely help you, but it may put you in the right direction.

My XFD and DXFs are controlled by my Mod wheel. Try opening up the piano roll for the instrument you'd like to edit and add an automation track for Modulation. Draw in some curves in the Mod automation track and see if that makes any difference.

lj,

I like the core melodies of this piece, but I have to agree with most of the other comments in that you need to work on putting the different elements of your sounds in the same space. You might try adding a touch of reverb in your mastering process. Izotope Ozone has a good mastering reverb, or, if you can keep your mixdown pretty dry, you can use a good hall reverb to place your "ensemble" in a single space.

lj,

I like the core melodies of this piece, but I have to agree with most of the other comments in that you need to work on putting the different elements of your sounds in the same space. You might try adding a touch of reverb in your mastering process. Izotope Ozone has a good mastering reverb, or, if you can keep your mixdown pretty dry, you can use a good hall reverb to place your "ensemble" in a single space.

I just want to make sure... when you're talking about placing things I'm assuming you just mean the orchestral instruments including percussion. Putting reverb on the synths would just make it sound a bit washed out surely?

The only reverb programmes I have are the ones that came with Logic 8 I don't suppose you know which one might do the trick? Can you combine reverbs to get a better sound or does that just make a mess?

I'm on Cubase, so I don't know if this will entirely help you, but it may put you in the right direction.

My XFD and DXFs are controlled by my Mod wheel. Try opening up the piano roll for the instrument you'd like to edit and add an automation track for Modulation. Draw in some curves in the Mod automation track and see if that makes any difference.

That's great! The mod wheel appears in the hyper editor without any searching so it will certainly do for now... I just have no idea how to assign any other controllers to something I can edit in the hyper editor.

Cheers.

I just want to make sure... when you're talking about placing things I'm assuming you just mean the orchestral instruments including percussion. Putting reverb on the synths would just make it sound a bit washed out surely?

The only reverb programmes I have are the ones that came with Logic 8 I don't suppose you know which one might do the trick? Can you combine reverbs to get a better sound or does that just make a mess?

I don't have much experience using synths in an orchestral piece so I'm not entirely sure what reverbing them alongside the orch. and perc. instruments would do, but perhaps try both ways. I use Cubase with a combination of different vst plug-in effects, so I don't know what Logic has to offer, but if it can host vst's, I would recommend either the ArtsAcoustic Reverb(KVR: ArtsAcoustic ArtsAcoustic Reverb - Virtual Effect) or the Sonic Foundry Acoustic Mirror(which has now been integrated into Sound Forge, but you may be able to find the stand alone floating around in peer-to-peer networks). The main thing is that you want to find a hall-style reverb that will create a virtual performance space that all your mixed-down instruments will reverberate in.

Hope this helps.

Hey :) This works well! I listened the your mastered version. Good composition and I think it's a better mix! I still think you could blend the orchestra just a little, little bit more.

Hey thanks for your help. I'm going to post my 2nd attempt at mastering in a bit. But your comments and tips really helped so thanks a lot....hopefully 3rd times' a charm

This is a really nice composition. I have all sorts of mastering/mixing problems too, so I won't even try to give any advice on that. :P

I like the themes you have a lot.

The instruments sound good too.

Yeah it could use some mastering but I find the musical content is nice enough to keep my attention..

Keep it up.

Ooooh! The perc. at the beginning is really nice... and the music definitely gets the feeling! I can't wait to hear the finished product :)

Ooooh! The perc. at the beginning is really nice... and the music definitely gets the feeling! I can't wait to hear the finished product :)

THANKS FOR YOUR KIND WORDS COAX AND HECKEL. I'VE HAD ANOTHER CRACK AT THE MIXING AND MASTERING...SEE WHAT YOU THINK.

http://www.box.net/shared/rumlm6h1aq

I'M OFF TO CHECK OUT SOME OF YOUR STUFF NOW :-)