Sonata! (suggestion)

I saw a page in this sites wiki that was suppose to talk about Sonatas.

It gave me some really important information... and then stopped. 

It was written seven years ago.

If any of you can give here a Sonata masterclass... that would be great :)

https://www.amazon.com/Classical-Form-Functions-Instrumental-Beethoven/dp/019514399X

https://www.amazon.com/Elements-Sonata-Theory-Deformations-Late-Eighteenth-Century/dp/0199773912

Seriously, the people who would do it really well don't have the time to spend on this site.

Johnbucket is totally right. Scholars in modern Sonata theory are not the type of people populating a site like this. However, I am also not that convinced it would be useful for “Young Composers”. Sonata theory tries to analyze music and distill certain general properties for certain types of music. They do not try to follow the way a piece was composed or what the composer was thinking when he chose certain paths for the music in a sonata. 

There are scholars that try to do that, and some of them lived in the hey-day of classical sonata. One of them was Heinrich Christoph Koch, a German musician and author, who compiled a very popular music lexicon and also a multi-part treatise on composition. What he writes is corroborated by other musicians and writers of his time. Now, what he wrote wasn’t on the cutting edge of musical change, but as he published his treatise in the years 1782-1793, is very useful for understanding the compositional strategies of many composers in the second half of the 18th century.

Some friendly soul at the publisher Cengage has chosen an excerpt from Koch as sample pages for a publication, so here is a small part translated into English: https://www.cengage.com/music/book_content/049557273X_wrightSimms/assets/ITOW/7273X_44_ ITOW_Koch.pdf

Edited November 19, 20178 yr by Willibald

To be able to overcome a form, you must first know how to create it. This was what the great Argol Schonberg was saying. You first learn to build a simple classic sonata and then you are ready to fly away from it.

On 8/16/2018 at 5:10 AM, Alexblog said:

To be able to overcome a form, you must first know how to create it. This was what the great Argol Schonberg was saying. You first learn to build a simple classic sonata and then you

...build a complex classical sonata? 😁

I would be delighted to master class on classical forms: I own both of those books (E book version); Allow me to read them thoroughly and prepare the master class. Also, it might have for those who are interested in this to know common practice harmony: cadences, tonal voice leading, counterpoint. For they could come up in a lesson. If you need a recommendation on books on those topics, ask me or anyone here. 🙂

Hi @Kvothe,

Those two books really are essential read! I would like to add a few:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.amazon.com/Sonata-Theory-Handbook-James-Hepokoski-ebook/dp/B08P5XSL5J&ved=2ahUKEwjPk_fPt_H-AhVZEnAKHf7oALAQFnoECDEQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0Sn7bsqVnordEdbfQp7CwA

This one is basically Hepokoski elaborating his points in the Sonata Theory book.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.amazon.com/Sonata-Forms-Revised-Charles-Rosen/dp/0393302199&ved=2ahUKEwjeksjrt_H-AhVHIYgKHZOvCVMQFnoECGEQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2OKvuaCZhD2nfN4jc9w8Xs

Charles Rosen's book interprets sonata form as a dramatic form if I don't forget the main point. Maybe I'm wrong since I read this few years ago.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.amazon.com/Classic-Music-Expression-Form-Style/dp/0028726901&ved=2ahUKEwjXqqiRuPH-AhUXAIgKHeAqCvUQFnoECBwQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2ZUCwkpu0i4hGwWWXWJSKy

Ratner's book is great as well by maintaing the importance of the tritone ^4-^7

Henry

Myabe it's just me but I really don't like the idea you have to "read" about sonata form. I think I kind of know what's going on after going through tens of sonatas and symphonies and chamber music...

1 hour ago, PCC said:

Myabe it's just me but I really don't like the idea you have to "read" about sonata form. I think I kind of know what's going on after going through tens of sonatas and symphonies and chamber music...

For me the most crucial thing is like what you said, to go through the real pieces and see in each case how the composer use that form in each situation. But a good thing of the books is that they can summarize it and analyze it in a different and objective way.