caters Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 Quote Hmm, okay that’s interesting. The chord is less minor? Oh, I am writing the transition to the second theme of my funeral march and I noticed something. The first time I have the theme, there is no modulation and the C chords sound convincingly minor with the G in the bass. If I simply invert the hands i.e. have the left hand play the melody and the right hand play the chords, the C chords don’t sound convincingly minor. Same notes just with an octave change, same proportion of C:Eb:G, totally different character. As for why I am going for hand inversion, it works for the modulation and I needed the left hand to become more melodic anyway so that the piece would be less boring. But why this change from definitely minor to almost major? I mean after all, the piano is pretty homogeneous as far as instruments go, only really changing timbre at the octave extremes. Most instruments change timbre just by going up an octave. And the chords are the same as is the melody. Shouldn’t that 1 C be enough for the convincingly minor sound in both cases regardless of how close it is to the bass note? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left Unexplained Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 probably the change in partials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsbars Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Well, if it doesn't sound convincing minor and that's what you want Don't play it that way. I always found that the V chord never sounded like it wanted to resolve to anything. So sometimes I augment the 5th to give it that grinding sort of flavor. I mean I wouldn't let the theory dictate what's supposed to happen, probably have to come up with your own chord for that point in the piece 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left Unexplained Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 1 hour ago, marsbars said: So sometimes I augment the 5th to give it that grinding sort of flavor. isn't that one of those french/italian/german 6ths? I like those a lot too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monarcheon Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 24 minutes ago, Left Unexplained said: isn't that one of those french/italian/german 6ths? I like those a lot too. No. Unless you're doing a tritone substitution, a V+ chord has dominant function while augmented 6ths have predominant function. V+ is pretty normal rock + musical theater chord because the sharp 5 voice leads nicely to the major third of the tonic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left Unexplained Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 1 minute ago, Monarcheon said: No. Unless you're doing a tritone substitution, a V+ chord has dominant function while augmented 6ths have predominant function. V+ is pretty normal rock + musical theater chord because the sharp 5 voice leads nicely to the major third of the tonic. ah, okay. Now I'm curious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caters Posted March 23, 2020 Author Share Posted March 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, Monarcheon said: No. Unless you're doing a tritone substitution, a V+ chord has dominant function while augmented 6ths have predominant function. V+ is pretty normal rock + musical theater chord because the sharp 5 voice leads nicely to the major third of the tonic. I myself find that augmented triads, while they are said to not be directional unlike their diminished cousins, I feel a direction from the chord, As an example, if I take a C major chord and sharpen the fifth, I find that while it can go to C major nicely, it actually has more of a tendency towards A minor being the chord of resolution, with G# being the leading tone. In other words, out of context, I hear an augmented triad as the III+ of the relative minor of the chord's root. V+ and I+ I only really hear within context(V+ within a chord progression, I+ mainly in chord alternation). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monarcheon Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 8 minutes ago, caters said: I myself find that augmented triads, while they are said to not be directional unlike their diminished cousins, I feel a direction from the chord, As an example, if I take a C major chord and sharpen the fifth, I find that while it can go to C major nicely, it actually has more of a tendency towards A minor being the chord of resolution, with G# being the leading tone. In other words, out of context, I hear an augmented triad as the III+ of the relative minor of the chord's root. V+ and I+ I only really hear within context(V+ within a chord progression, I+ mainly in chord alternation). (C+ = E+) = ([C E G#] = [E G# C]) = ([C E G#] = [E G# B#]). E+ = V+/vi in C major. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsbars Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Ooo that's kind of deep 🥶 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinn Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Probably best to go with what sounds best then work out the theory later (in case the situation crops up again). Composers will have done their work for theory to exist. Theory for its own sake is a solution going around looking for a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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