And With His Stripes We are Healed, but with Improved Counterpoint!

Handel's "And With His Stripes We are Healed," but with my own contrapuntal addendums, twists, and best of all, vocaloid! Let me know what y'all think!

The PDF below highlights all of my addendums

Edited January 29, 20233 yr by Hcab5861

Video removed?

Hey @Hcab5861,

Will you restore the video? I find it removed!😛

Henry

The video should be back up now!

27 minutes ago, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

Hey @Hcab5861,

Will you restore the video? I find it removed!😛

Henry

 

34 minutes ago, Thatguy v2.0 said:

Video removed?

 

The video should be back up now!

fascinating. i wonder why the sounds are transposed a tone down?

12 minutes ago, mossy84 said:

fascinating. i wonder why the sounds are transposed a tone down?

 

That’s because I transposed it down half a tone down (around 408Hz) for that authentic baroque sound 🙂

Hi! Actually by what method do you improve Handel's counterpoint? I don't look through the original version deeply so I want to know your method here!

Henry

6 hours ago, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

Hi! Actually by what method do you improve Handel's counterpoint? I don't look through the original version deeply so I want to know your method here!

Henry

 

Great question. There wasn’t anything to “correct”, per se. I essentially transformed  the piece into a ‘Bachian’ one via filling in gaps, editing and adding parts for freer counterpoint. I even added a couple of stretti in the piece, too. Though, I’m now realizing I should’ve highlighted the parts I added/changed

This is  a bit weird. It sounds OK, but "filling the gaps" makes the canonic structure weaker.

1 hour ago, Luis Hernández said:

This is  a bit weird. It sounds OK, but "filling the gaps" makes the canonic structure weaker.

 

 

What do you mean by “it makes the canonic structure weaker”?

In Haendel version it is very clear where the entries are and the imitations are identical or almost. I have the feeling that adding material makes it a bit diffuminated. Or else, it is the sounds you're using.

Well, it's not easy to put the origina version aside.

2 minutes ago, Luis Hernández said:

In Haendel version it is very clear where the entries are and the imitations are identical or almost. I have the feeling that adding material makes it a bit diffuminated. Or else, it is the sounds you're using.

Well, it's not easy to put the origina version aside.

 

I’d say it’s pretty easy for someone to distinguish the fugal subject in the sea of counterpoint since the subject is quite memorable. Particularly because of the subject’s minor 7th drop. I recommend giving Bach’s BWV 227.2: Jesu Meine Freude, es ist nun nichts a listen. It’s clear when the subject enters, despite the 5 voice counterpoint. Same thing goes for the “Ihr aber seid nicht fleischlicht” movement as well, which is a full blown fugue! 

After all fugue is not only Bachian. Haendel tends to treat fugue and counterpoint with more freedom and thinner texture, sparser structure, and is less learned than Bach. I actually enjoy the original thinner texture than here, since it's more Haendelian there and creating more possibilities in fugal writing. I honestly don't like how you say you "improve" Haendel's counterpoint and fugal writing. You can say you add some counterpoint to it, since Haendelian counterpoint is by no means needed to be improved for me. I think we have to respect the original intention of a composer even if he's an unknown one, let alone a renowned one like Haendel. Of course technically speaking Bachian fugue is sometimes more demanding, but it does not mean that Haendel's fugues are inferior to it. Can I say that since I only love stile antico, then I have to improve all the unprepared dissonance in Bach's fugues to a Palestrina one and say I improve Bach? It's really weird to say so.

Henry

1 hour ago, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

After all fugue is not only Bachian. Haendel tends to treat fugue and counterpoint with more freedom and thinner texture, sparser structure, and is less learned than Bach. I actually enjoy the original thinner texture than here, since it's more Haendelian there and creating more possibilities in fugal writing. I honestly don't like how you say you "improve" Haendel's counterpoint and fugal writing. You can say you add some counterpoint to it, since Haendelian counterpoint is by no means needed to be improved for me. I think we have to respect the original intention of a composer even if he's an unknown one, let alone a renowned one like Haendel. Of course technically speaking Bachian fugue is sometimes more demanding, but it does not mean that Haendel's fugues are inferior to it. Can I say that since I only love stile antico, then I have to improve all the unprepared dissonance in Bach's fugues to a Palestrina one and say I improve Bach? It's really weird to say so.

Henry

 

I totally get what you're saying. I definitely should have used different wording because I by no means am trying to say Handel's work is inferior or incorrect. That's why I changed the title of the my video from "..., but with improved counterpoint" to "with Bachian counterpoint."

4 minutes ago, Hcab5861 said:

I totally get what you're saying. I definitely should have used different wording because I by no means am trying to say Handel's work is inferior or incorrect. That's why I changed the title of the my video from "..., but with improved counterpoint" to "with Bachian counterpoint."

Thanks for your clarification! 

This reminds me of what happened with the opera Norma by Bellini... and Wagner.

Bellini was often accused of using a weak orchestration. Wagner admired Bellini's skills to write long and twisting melodies (and took it as an influence for his concept of endless melody).

Wagner re-orchestrated the whole opera (he even wrote an additional aria). Imagine the density of Wagner in Bellini.... Wagner himself said it had no sense because Bellini's orchestration was the best to enhance the vocal parts, which was the most important for Bellini.

Wagner's version is there as a curiosity, but it's never on stage.