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@Luis Hernández I also own Cecil book. His humor is rather intelligent. But at the time it was written, the alto flute was inaptly named bass flute. now, we both there is actual bass flute. So this is not correct naming. unlike Adler, he miss places other woods in brass section section. Again this is error on his part.

@Kvothe @Henry Ng Tsz Kiu THANK YOU I’m going to try and get hold of a copy of Adler’s treatise… I have a lesser-known little book by Cecil Forsyth (‘Orchestration’) which is a good complement because it covers the history of each instrument, why and how they came to be as they are, amongst other things. As for counterpoint… it’s a controversial topic and warrants a separate thread. In any case, when you haven’t followed a formal musical education and career path, as is my case – I do everything out of passion – at certain points or moments a good teacher is essential. Someone who’s a good educator, who can guide you directly. That gives you the wings to carry on on your own. I’ve turned to this professional ‘help’ at critical moments: When I decided to study tonal and modal harmony in depth. When I decided to delve into 20th-century compositional techniques. When I decided to understand and apply counterpoint in any style. And right now… with orchestration. Long live music!!

I don’t think innovation has to go hand in hand with formal training. I do think that any kind of training is beneficial. What I find challenging at the moment is the very act of innovating. And that’s not a bad thing. There’s enough material and musical languages out there to do millions of things. Throughout the 20th century, I believe there have indeed been many movements and composers who have explored, innovated and pushed boundaries, many of whom have left behind their own musical languages. Ives + Cowell, Schoenberg, Bartók, Messiaen, Cage, Ligeti, … right up to Pärt and Rautavaara. Minimalism… But since the latter part of the 20th century, I don’t think there has been any significant innovation. Perhaps in this day and age, innovation will have to come hand in hand with new technologies and sciences: Symbiosis with artificial intelligence: perhaps the composer could train a musical language model using their own works to generate variations with which to engage in real-time dialogue. The creation of mutable works (soundtracks, etc.) that never sound the same twice, adapting to factors relating to the listener. Perhaps some kind of microtonal system might re-emerge in the future?

Having read the review of the trumpet in F, I think it refers to a natural trumpet. It’s the same as with the French horn. Before the 19th century, these instruments were not chromatic. They were only capable of playing a natural scale. That is why there were horns in D, G, etc., depending on how they were constructed. This entailed significant limitations, particularly from today’s perspective. And that is why they took longer to be incorporated into the symphonic repertoire. In the 19th century, horns and trumpets evolved to incorporate the modern mechanisms of valves, etc., and became as we know them today. I believe that in such situations, one should look for another instrument where the register is comfortable.

I did find this webpage on F trumpets: Robb Stewart Brass InstrumentsOrchestral F Trumpet History — Robb Stewart Brass Instrum...Apparently they were very popular in the 1800s; but it says they're basically extinct today!

Now that I think about it, I used to march in a drum and bugle corps and all of our instruments were in G, even though such horns were usually also very rare. I marched with a G Mellophone which was basically a G Marching French Horn. The Trumpets were called G Sopranos and the Trombones and Tubas were just called G Tenors and G Contras. So I'm sure there exists every kind of instrument and tuning imaginable, somewhere.

My bad! 😁

There is no such thing as an F Trumpet! LoL .. There's Bb Trumpet, Eb Cornet, C Trumpet, etc. But if you want a lower, F version of a trumpet you'd probably want a Flugelhorn! Although, I just looked it up on google and it says that F Trumpets and Flugelhorns do exist but are very rare.

Thanks Henry! It's actually by Debussy; not Fauré. (I think Luis mentioned Fauré because their music is of the same era, and has some common traits.) I'd probably have to use an F trumpet rather than a B flat trumpet or cornet? Not an expert in trumpets though! Alex

I wrote a movement in sonata form where all of the phrases in the exposition and development are prime numbers in length in terms of measures. Primes.mp3 Primes.pdf

on pastel skies was “commissioned” (more in this case called for) by the young composers 2026 summer competition fit this team after a poem about the serene atmosphere of the Midsummer afternoon So, on a bright summer day it shall be: The great sun, my partner in joy, Shall make, amid the satin and the silk, Your dear beauty lovelier still; The sky, all blue, like a tall canopy, Shall quiver sumptuously in the long folds Above our two happy brows, grown pale With pleasure and expectancy; And when evening comes, the breeze shall be soft And play caressingly about your veils, And the peaceful stars looking down Shall smile benevolently on man and wife. The gestation of this piece (initial thought, even before the entry of the first note) was an image of a dreamy Florida sunset over the Gulf of Mexico with this image the piece will transport you to another dimension of into the pastel pink, orange, and red opalescent skies instrumentation xylophone (doubling on glockenspiel and crotales, /w large zill bell attachment vibraphone I /w sus and Z.bell and dull metallic object (something like a Burma bell) vibraphone II /w sus and Z.bell and dull metallic object (something like a Burma bell) Marimba I /w sus and temple blocks Marimba II /w Chimes, sus and temple blocks and large, vibrating drum ( tom or surdo ect.) On Pastel Skies.mp3 On Pastel Skies.pdf

Entry: On Pastel Sky Melodies Themes Motives Harmony Chords Textures Form Development Structure Time Originality Creativity Score Presentation Instrumentation Orchestration Playability Execution of Given Challenge Taste 10 10 10 10 8 8 10 10 Average Score: 9.5 Review: I generally do not much to say about this piece. My only concern is that why is mallet percussion players switching to non-mallet instruments. Usually, non-mallets require a different staves. You also church bells as part of the ensemble. I am not sure if mallet percussionist would be able to play them (?). Those runs and rolls seem seems to fine. There is no issue there. I can say this was highly creative piece with different textures, harmonies, and themes. The overall structure is intro (Hymnal) then quasi rondo happening. That was fun to listen to. You went above meeting what was expected. Mallet percussion mixed with non mallets creates beautiful orchestral sounds and colors. This is usually out side my taste, but...hey...I thoroughly enjoyed. Please write more mixed ensembles in the future. It is started to grow on me. kvothe.

My dead young composers, I think it is time to list resources I enjoy reading and am reading. I will start with more accessible to new composers then go to most advance ones. Every composer, under their toolbelt, should have firm understanding tonal harmony. While the millions of books on the market, it is probably difficult to decide which one to use. This is where your undergraduate course helps you. Professors have thier prefence. Mine used "tonal Harmony" However, if you want to get jump, I suggest two books: Fux treatise on species counterpoint, and Tchaikovsky treatise on harmony. Schoenberg also wrote two books on harmony. Be warned: Schoenberg book on Harmony is like reading book on philosophy. Traditional harmony is fine, but we are currently in modern era where that pushes the boundaries. Thus, book on 20th century harmony should the follow up. There are two books that go through this! I think Peter is going through one. He would reccomded that one. I have that one. And I would agree with his assestion about it. I would also suggest picking up book on Alan Forte and "The music of Bela Bartok" Understanding musical style is important as writer. Therefore, Charles Rosen books "The classical style" and "The romantics" are a must. He links Bach to each period. Speaking of Him, he wrote about Sonatas: Sonatas forms. (I hear there are 3 vol set about sonatas, but his book is more concise). Now to onto musical forms: Analyzing Classical forms and Sonata theory. Both are great books. But start with Schoenberg book on composition. I hope this well you. Also, score study. Share your works as you learn. And choose the best path that works for you. Orchestration is the final step! Rimsky-Korosky, Adler, Brant.

Adler’s book does deal with the orchestration itself in a rather detailed fashion. But again, the main focus should be you listening to many orchestral music with the book beside for your assistance on understanding orchestration. Adler’s book does have a quite big list of music references which I did go through and listening all of them really helps me! Henry

Why hello everyone! I think I am early to the party. :) Below you will find my entry to competition. Summer's Day: YC Summer competition - Chamber Music - Young Composers Music Forum