Henry Ng Tsz Kiu

Hi @Markus Boyd ! Sorry for a long delay for replying! Actually not only this movement but the entire piece is predominantly in minor. My story to tell is about despair, the feeling of it and the struggle of it with hope. When you are struggling it's easy you lose all hope in the world, so I don't put balance of major/minor in this work. In fact the portion of Eb major is increasing during movements and the work will end in it instead of C minor to represent some hope! During this movement it will be me to be crazed by the despair completely till exhaustion, and after that you will start reflecting, which is the theme of the 3rd movement. In that emotional state I believe there won't be much drama from major/minor, rather it will be a deep dive into the despair in minor. Henry

Hi @Scriabinian ! Sorry for such a long delay! I would love to have it played in real life too, but that will be a bonus only. Thank you for your compliment! Henry

Hi @Luis Hernández ! Thx for your reply! I always want to reply but I'm too busy right now ao it causes a really long delay! Thank you Luis. I know how knoweledgeable you are with musix theory and to earn a compliment from you is an honor. I do think in terms of counterpoint and hopefully it's not too bad haha! Henry

Yeah before revision I think the fugues are the main courses but during this revision I realised how important those Laments are in the structure. I really love them too given how straight away I express my emotion there, why in fugues the emotions are more indirect. Yup the modulation is pretty tame becausr this is the 1st time I write an entire fugal movement so I don't know how to modulate better like what I did in the Sextet fugue later, but I think the more modest modulations help the movement stay in the mood, hopefully. Thx! I really like the parts when despair comes back, they are emotionally and technically better passages! Henry

Haha thx Alex! When I composed I seldom stick to any plan. This structural graph is made only after I finish the piece and me acting as the analyst rather than the composer haha. When I write I'm probably the same as you to write with instinct and polish them later. Indeed, it takes longer than I thought. I am almost finish with the whole piece as the 4th movement is almost done! It would be a bonus but I'm not that eager to have the piece performed in real life. Henry

This is the 3rd movement of my Clarinet Quintet in C minor, which is completed 4 years ago and I'm revising it. Thx to my friend Vince @Thatguy v2.0 for making the audio! Here is the pdf, audio, video of the movement. I have also made a structural graph since this movement is a fugal one and I want to show the structure more clearly. https://youtu.be/QMQyFbriSmM (For YT)Clarinet Quintet in C minor 3rd mov Final Version 20260906.pdfClarinet Quintet in C minor 3rd mov Final.mp3Clarinet Quintet 3rd Mov Structural Plan.pdf To me this is core movement in the piece and my favourite. After 2nd movement's anxious power I finally calm down to reflect subjectively and (more)objectively, which are represented by Lament and Fugue respectively with the following structure: 0:00 1st Lament, using the despair [0134] motive again, then incorporate the (future) fugue subject in the clarinet while strings keep lamenting, and ends with one more question of despair. Real lament after what is suffered in the first 30 minutes of the work. 1:10 1st Fugue. Appearance of prime form of the subject. I always go for F minor in any secondary themes or answer in my C minor works because G minor is always too weak for C minor. Only F minor is dark enough for it. First stretto in 3:05. Ends in F minor with angry despair. 4:03 2nd Lament. A complete new part for this movement added only in this final version, sounds more dissonant than anything else in the movement, further intensifies the pain. 5:00 2nd Fugue. Using the retrograde form of the subject as main subject, denoting the backward reflection of me on despair. The flow here is also more fluid. [BACH] in viola in 6:56. Prime subject joins again in 7:16 to have stretto with the retrograde subject. Ends in F minor again with augmented subject in 8:07. 8:25 3rd Lament. My favourite of the movement, the sheer pain especially in 8:41-9:00 always aches my heart. But human beings only change after pain and I am no exception, so after this painful passage some hope is finally invited to the party to modulate to E flat major for next part. 9:40 3rd Fugue. Using the inverted form of the subject as main subject, denoting the complete upside down of thought from despair to hope. Later the retrograde inversion form of the subject enters in 11:08 to represent even further distance from despair. The climax in 11:48 is the most hopeful passage in what's happened in the entire Quintet up to this point. But after it doubts continue to enter. Despair starts invading in 12:42, and in 13:18 the prime form in tonic c minor enters in a subconscious Viola entry plus an augmented 2nd violin entry. I think a lot on whether to extend the transition or not, but finally I just decided to keep it this way since an early defeat of hope can represent the cruelty of despair and the weakness of hope more. I love the sheer pain here, and the return of prime subject on cello in 13:40 means the struggle of hope is futile. An E flat major prime entry on Clarinet try to struggle once more but falls to despair again, a final prime subject on cello in 14:11 announces the defeat of hope. The section ends on a German Sixth chord to leave the music suspended. 14:36 Final Lament and coda. Solo by Clarinet, wants to escape by quoting the dream motive in G flat major like in 1st movement but has to accept despair. In 15:19 the opening returns to remind unsettled affair. In 15:36 all four forms of subject appear for a final conclusion and lament and acceptance of despair and tragedy. Only by acceptance you may recover from it. The biggest change I made in this revision is the addition of 2nd Lament and repetition of 1st Lament. This is my original plan but with the bad sound sample I deleted them in my final draft. But now with Vince's great rendition I think it's better to retain them and extend the Laments to match the overall narrative structure. I also change the entrance order of the instrument, some counterpoint and details here and there etc. In terms of fugal treatment I make use of all four forms (prime, retrograde, inversion and retrograde inversion) of the same subject to denote the ups and downs, thinking backward and forward of me, so they are not merely fugal devices but also have narrative function. Hopefully you enjoy the movement, feel free to criticize it and leave comments here. It's a long movement and a long description, and I gratefully thank you if you listen and read till the end! P.S Here are YC posts of previous movements: 1st Mov: 2nd Mov: Henry

I won't want to have that lololol

No worries, usually the pieces are submitted in the last week 🤣

Apart from you there's always one guy who can never get "Better than Thatguy" badge: @Thatguy v2.0 himself lol!

Becoz there ain't no fairy tales in modern world now lolol 😝 Also it reminds you drinking more milk lolol

Hi @interlect , For sure we are not Gods, but we do have forum etiquette to follow: You may check out rule 2a and 2b: It's our responsibility to keep the thread on topic. I think except for you, the fable simile and that PNG aren't related to the topic at all and what it does is move other members' attention away from real discussion of a truly meaningful topic. I hate everytime when the forum etiquette post has to be quoted, because that means someone violates them no matter intentionally or accidentally, since normally the rules are followed even without knowing their existence. But if they aren't followed, we have the responsibilities to have you acknowledged. We really apperciates your time here, but make sure you follow the forum etiquettes so we can enjoy your longer stay here! Henry

My bad! 😁

I actually like the undoubled sound since it reinforces the airy and ethereal mood of the original Faure piece. I think if there’s a bar’s rest it will be better for putting the mutes on. But yeah, using flautando or natural/artificial harmonics can produce that ethereal effect. Will a cornet serve better than trumpet for its more mellow sound? Thx for sharing! Henry

Adler’s book does deal with the orchestration itself in a rather detailed fashion. But again, the main focus should be you listening to many orchestral music with the book beside for your assistance on understanding orchestration. Adler’s book does have a quite big list of music references which I did go through and listening all of them really helps me! Henry

I think counterpoint is essential but it can only be learned only after you have some level of understanding on harmony. Fux’s book is great if you want to learn about counterpoint in Palestrina’s style since Fux aimed at the stile antico counterpoint. I would suggest if you want to learn counterpoint, you should get yourself familiar to the Well Tempered Clavier. And theory books on counterpoint are only supplements to real music for you to understand the beauty of counterpoint in real music, Henry