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Hello hello! I've technically known about this forum for a while, but it's time to finally post! I'm hopefully going to start being more active around here to keep myself accountable and continue working on my composition skills To start this out, I wanted to share a piece I've been working on! It's still a WIP, (Basically the only thing in this file that is actively unfinished is the ending and I want to rework the start), but other than that it's a pretty complete piece. I wrote it for a solo-violin assignment in my composition studio, and because I got really mad at a choral concert I went to because they sang a piece called "Shalom" that had nothing to do with the language of origin or culture of origin. Anyway that's a rant for another bit. Here's the little klezmer!

good catch, fixed it :3

thank you so much 😄 honestly I just haven't really thought about breaking the scale, fair point

"Seraphim," is a CSound composition that utilizes the technology of, Kim Cascone's, instruments. The song begins with an atonal fugue in two voices. The atonal fugue develops to another fugue, in 8 voices. Complexity becomes no foreshadow in storytelling, as it is overtly complex from the start value. It's unnecessary pushing the boundaries of baroque music, peering through the universe in a serial kaleidoscope that has no mercy for mankind, the horrors it shares; think Lovecraft's, "Fungi of Yugguth." It'll make you want to vomit, it'll make you want to die, but all this is typical of seeing a Seraphim at the beach, so to speak. Behold the Seraphim, as you feast your ears on the deeper mystery of the universe. As she plays in the beach, she gazes down as the drops of water fall back to the ocean. Anyway, the amount of effort in going into this piece was unclocked. Judging by the pdf, you can see instrument 3 had the most work done. In this instrument, contains the information for the atonal fugue(s). I want to thank, Kim Cascone, for making his instruments available: Recontextualizing Ambient Music in Csound "Seraphim," is a reaction to the essay. When you place traditional music, ANY traditional song, on top of ambient music, you get a wonderful parallax effect. I think the reality of the song is that it achieves what artists of the Renaissance couldn't achieve, which is the parallax. I don't think the concept existed until, Physics, was discovered by Isaac Newton. The beginning set for the opening fugue is, [0,4,6,11]. My PC did not catch fire writing this song, though if I were to compose it on my phone, rendering it would be a nightmare. What I hope to achieve in, "Seraphim," is promoting my website, www.atonalfugue.net if you want to check it out; no feedback needed, you can just enjoy it!

@JP S., thank you! When my church sings it, we'll have "amen" replacing the 'oohs.' Oohs are really out of style, now. 👻 I'll definitely try that! The amen at the end could fit the tradition, very well. Could we discuss further what going away, or differing from tradition may result?

I think we are discussing more on the authorship when a composer is REALLY the one who composes the work themselves. As long as the AI doesn't interfere with the composing process it should be allowed, so AI programs like Cantai or Note Performer are no problem at all. Henry

Since this is a composition form, it is difficult to have to have live performances, I will ask this: What are your thoughts regarding Note Performer? @PeterthePapercomPoser @Aiwendil Here are mine: NP has it owns instruments that are used in playback in notation play back. Thus, this is similar to how VST library operates: each library is. They have they own instruments. It cannot replace DAW and those VST. When it comes to mock-ups, composers usually work with in daw. But they could use NP, too. The studio string orchestra that performed my piece was sent a midi mock up with score and parts. I.e. I am fine with a midi mock-up with score and parts (either from daw or using NP). But I am not fine with something like Suno. That is not mock up! I hope this helps

Right because by that reasoning .. if I were to use a VST plugin with AI assisted vibrato modeling or some such thing, it wouldn't be permissible to post.

Here's the thing, though: "AI", by itself, is pretty much meaningless. For decades, people have been using "AI" to refer to the programming controlling NPCs in video games, for instance. Sometimes, "AI" is used in a sense that covers any machine learning or neural network application. More recently, "AI" has caught on in the context of Large Language Models like ChatGPT that take a prompt as input and then use some minimization function over their corpus of training data to predict what the most likely response to that prompt would be. The broader class of software including LLMs and similar models that output images, sounds, etc., are called "generative AI". And because "AI" is such a hot topic now, anyone whose software product uses anything resembling a neural network is going to be sure to advertise it as "AI". In my opinion, it would be better to use more precise language and, when we mean LLMs, say "LLMs". But I suppose that ship has sailed. In any event, clearly what is under discussion here is whether music composed by a generative, LLM-like software should be permissible here - and as I've said, I don't think it should be, since this is a composition forum and there's no sense in posting a piece of music you didn't compose. But by the same token, if you composed the music, then of course you should be permitted to post it, regardless of whether you used tools that are advertised as "AI" to produce the audio mock-up of the music you composed.

I really enjoyed this! My only complaint is that in a few places, the mixing sounded off - the flute almost inaudible when playing pianissimo. But that's a minor nitpick. It's an excellent composition.

@Kvothe I don't know what you mean by "Cantai isn't AI". It literally says on it's website that it's an AI tool for generating vocal mock-ups.

Hi Gabriel. Sorry this a bit late for your competition entry, but like Kvothe says above, there are errors in the way you've labelled the staffs. Far as I can see, you should have Oboe 1.2, Clarinet 1.2, Bassoon 1.2, Horn in F 1.3, Horn in F 2.4, Trumpet in Bb 1.2, Trombone 1.2, Trombone 3. Also, where strings have dyads, you should indicate whether these are to be played div. in 2, or non-div. (e.g. celli in Bar 13). Where you have more than one voice on a staff, stalks should always point in opposite directions (you've done this in some places, but not others). The exception is when you have div. in 3 or greater in the strings. Some of your slurs in the strings are too long to be playable in one bow: so these slurs should be omitted. (A slur always indicates: play in one bow. Composers sometimes write molto legato above the staff to indicate longer legato passages.) For the horn parts in concert pitch, you are allowed to have lots of ledger lines, so they can be written in standard treble clef. Hope that helps, Alex

@Fruit hunter Cant is not what being referred here. That is more score play back and it is not AI. Same goes for NP. Walden is similar to what one would do in a daw. Those are fine. What is not Suno. Suno is completely AI. No perfomace at all. It just words written into app and then creates music? but how?

I’m kind of on the mix opinion here for me AI music seems very dishonest and rather very silly in its own part. It should have no place competing against real human work however, though I am completely foreign, even encouraging the use of some AI music software’s. (stuff like cantai.) that allows for the performance of a human work to be perfected. Thing number one: I definitely feel like that a performance using AI is not as bad again this is not regarding about the performance of music. This is a regarding about people’s compositions. Thing number two: it should be unfair to have AI as a wild thing in competitions. Sure they could be in an events. Events are perfect for AI as that nobody is competing against anybody, however, though I feel like top priority should be given to real people’s human works first AI could wait. Competition competitions and AI do not mix unless if you have a AI only competition My final thing to say though is, I am very mixed about having a AI only sub if we do have one sure I wouldn’t mind as much and it’s not a huge problem but again you’re not composing music at least there should be someplace for AI music here and to have at least a very strong filter that can be unable to get rid of it for those who do not want any part of it things to go against AI is definitely some anti-AI software to tell if someone is using it for ill intent. At least some knowledge of a piece of music can work as proof and even if it’s a short thing, then at most a score to accompany with it. Honestly for contests score in audio should be mandatory unless if stated otherwise. Thank you.

The slowly moving bass chords sound like they would tell a wondrous, but very sad tale. It feels like you mix a more modern handling of dissonances etc with romantic traditions, and this makes the prelude very colourful. At least many shades of grey. The build-up to m.27 is especially nice. The form also works well for this short piece. Thanks for sharing!

@Wieland Handke, thanks for your gracious words and the extensive review. Regarding the second theme in the Allegro, I have composed a version with a more independent bass line in m. 13, 15 and 19 (not 23); it hasn't the same drive as the quasi-Fauxbourdon, but it is something I will revisit as, yes, it is a bit repetitive. The score has to be reformatted for playing, no question about it. This is especially true for the Rondo which I produced rather quickly. Thanks for looking at the bass line in the Andante; I will have a look. While I am no productive Lilypond user anymore (which I am still fond of), I have indeed a separate file for audio output for all movements. As it was customary to ornament the repetitions, I added some plausible ornaments in the audio file for the minuet, and some other small modifications which an experienced cembalist would add.

Dear J. Lee Graham, I'm hoping to use this in a teen chamber music program I teach. If it gets performed, I'll let you know here.

A few parts recorded without pre-planning. Background is minor piano arpeggiated with Arpache SX. Recorded without planning. Majour foreground piano is hammered in without planning also. Piano is layered VSTi HALion. Keybed is ModX6.

I know this tempo is quite unplayable, but since the composition itself is fairly trivial and a bit silly, I felt that presenting it at an unnatural speed made it more entertaining to listen to

Thank you for your feedback , Henry Ng Tsz Kiu.

@Cafebabe Thanks, and I will give this a helpful review too. I mean to start you have nice, clear harmonies. It creates a pleasant feel, and I like how you chose a string quintet which can make timbre and rhythmic changes easier to navigate since you have another voice. You also have a consistent tone throughout. I think the biggest thing you could do differently to make it more pleasant/interesting would be giving more rhythmic variety. The dotted rhythm is almost entirely the same in the beginning, even across all the voices. In the fugue, the running 8ths have little room for “breath” in the melody, so adding variety would make it feel more natural. I think you had more sense of melody & variety from 28 to the end, so nice job there. Would you mind checking out my piece for feedback please?

Thank you! I'm using https://www.soundtrap.com to make the instrumental part.

Hello Everyone, Thank you for your support in my recent compositions, I really appreciate the great feedback I always get from y'all. Today I have a piece that I really needed to write for myself. I've recently been under a lot of stress, with demands and expectations of other people really weighing me down. The struggle to meet those expectations has hurt my self-esteem. This piece is simply an expression of that feeling, and ends with the hope that I will conquer it all.

@J. Lee Graham Thank you for your feedback! I've fixed your notes in my personal scores, incase I ever get this performed. @Henry Ng Tsz Kiu @Uhor Thank you both!

😁