Monarcheon

How to notate this?

12 posts in this topic

I'm writing in cut time the attached figure. I want the next measure to be 5 quarter note triplet-length notes in one measure to match the change in the kind of triplet (I would call this 5/6, but finale doesn't do irrational time signatures). Does anyone know a mathematically sound way to write what I'm describing?

Screen Shot 2017-07-13 at 11.59.13 PM.png

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I'm not really sure I understand the problem completely, but I'll give this riddle a shot. What I see is a half-note pentuplet figure with the fifth pentuplet tied to the first two beats of a following half-note triplet. In the next measure, you could potentially just change it to a half-note sextuplet figure, with the final two sextuplets tied to the first two beats of the following half nite triplet. The half-note sextuplets would be equivalent to quarter-note triplets, and I think they'd also be more consistent with both the time signature and the style of the preceding measure.

I hope I understood the issue correctly!

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40 minutes ago, Noah Brode said:

I'm not really sure I understand the problem completely, but I'll give this riddle a shot. What I see is a half-note pentuplet figure with the fifth pentuplet tied to the first two beats of a following half-note triplet. In the next measure, you could potentially just change it to a half-note sextuplet figure, with the final two sextuplets tied to the first two beats of the following half nite triplet. The half-note sextuplets would be equivalent to quarter-note triplets, and I think they'd also be more consistent with both the time signature and the style of the preceding measure.

I hope I understood the issue correctly!

 

You're on the right track, but the thing is I only want five beats in the following measure, instead of a disguised 6. Maybe I'm misconstruing your message...

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I'm not sure I understood it but: ¿¿??

This reminds me of the concepts Henry Cowell developed, and Conlon Nancarrow put in practice with his piano rolls.

 

Captura de pantalla 2017-07-14 a las 17.37.58.jpg

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Hi Monarcheon

I am not sure if this helps, but it is worth a try.

If the problem is the time-signature, you could perhaps something like this.

3_tuplet_5_tuplet.jpg.3568ef6ff51665e9d029b4e8bdc1f53c.jpg

The lower notes of the first measure relates to the upper notes as a quarter-note relates to a quarter triplet.

The lower notes of the second measure relates to the upper notes as a quarter-note relates to a quarter pentuplet.

 

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10 hours ago, Luis Hernández said:

I'm not sure I understood it but: ¿¿??

This reminds me of the concepts Henry Cowell developed, and Conlon Nancarrow put in practice with his piano rolls.

 

Captura de pantalla 2017-07-14 a las 17.37.58.jpg

 

Are each of those quintuplets the same length as a quarter note triplet in 2/2?

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The problem is in relaying the information to the performer.  What ever you do, it needs to show an equivalency.  This solution is simple, but gives the performer the necessary information.

Sorry to do it as an attachment, but couldn't figure out how to show a fragment.

Tim

 

PDF

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45 minutes ago, tmarko said:

The problem is in relaying the information to the performer.  What ever you do, it needs to show an equivalency.  This solution is simple, but gives the performer the necessary information.

Sorry to do it as an attachment, but couldn't figure out how to show a fragment.

Tim

 

 

PDF

Yes, I know how to metric modulation works, I just don't know how to notate it in finale since it doesn't give me a quarter note triplet as an option... it seems like you've already ascended to a higher plane :happy:

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I'm not sure I'm entirely clear on the nature of the problem, but what's going on in the next measure AFTER the one you are worried about?  Is there a way to combine the two measures that helps you out, or split the one before it to combine with the one you are worried about, and then use accents to adjust stresses?  Sometimes making measures into smaller units can help decomplicate the math.  Question two, is this a piece that needs a conductor who will need to worry about conducting these odd measures?  If you were beating this, what feels like an intuitive beat pattern as you hum what you want here?  (There's your answer).  Are there other instruments who need to be considered, ie. how to keep the conductor and this part from confusing them?  (There's the other consideration of your answer). When in doubt, go look at some Brubeck and see how he notated things?  

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To me the simplest solution is to use metronome marks (you'll need one at the beginning in order for this to work). I would do it like so:

  1. Turn the next measure into a 5/4 bar.
  2. Take your old metronome mark and multiply it by 1.5 (so if the old quarter note = 60 then the new one would = 90).
  3. Add the new metronome mark above your 5/4 bar.

With this, the new quarter notes should be the same speed as the old triplet quarter notes. If this wasn't what you meant, you could adapt this; simply make the time sig the number of beats you want, and multiply the old speed by the ratio you want (so, in this case, I think you wanted the new speed to be 3 quarter notes for every 2 in the old speed, so 3/2 = 1.5).

If you don't have a metronome mark at the beginning, I'd suggest you add one anyway just to help with clarity in sections like this.

Hope this helps!

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No higher plane, I cheated a bit.

I used an existing modulation from the expression tool and altered it to show q=q and put a couple spaces before the first q.  The triplet numbering is simple text positioned over top and was just -3-.  The font should probably be altered to match the rest of the expressions.

Hope that helps.

Tim

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