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Hi everyone, I'm studying counterpoint, and I'm using Alfred Mann's translation of the Gradus ad Parnassum. I have a question about cantus firmi. In my music history classes from college, and in some of the books I've read, a cantus firmus is derived from chant. My question is: HOW is a cantus firmus derived? The melodies I have in books of chant are very, very different from the cantus firmi in the Gradus ad Parnassum. Did Fux use a particular method to modify or rework existing chant melodies in order to use them as cantus firmi? If anyone can help me or point me in the right direction, let me know. Thanks in advance, Clayton

Hello I have recently started to work thorough J. Fux’s Gradus ad Parnassum. I have just completed the first chapter on species one counterpoint, and believe I have understood the majority of it. But there are just a couple of questions I have regarding the text that any help for would be gratefully appreciated. The first is in Fig. 21 on p.39 (Using the 1965 Alfred Mann translation) The student (Joseph) is given a cantus firmus in the mixolydain mode starting on G. In the 11thBar he sharpens the F to and F#. When asked as to why he did this he says: I wanted to write a sixth here. But when I studies singing I learned that Fa leads down and mi leads up. Since the progression moves upwards from the sixth into a third, I have used a sharp in order to emphasize the tendency to ascend. Besides, The F in the eleventh bar would result in a harsh relation with the F# in the thirteenth bar. This answer seems to please his teacher (Aloys). What is meant by far leads down and mi leads up? I understand the need for the F# in the thirteenth bar which creates a Minor third with the leading tone in the upper part, resulting in smooth cadence back to the tonic. But why is a sharp needed in other bars as I thought taking the melody out of he mode was strictly forbidden according to Fux’s rules? If all the F’s are made # would this then just be G major? My second question in relating to Fig. 15 (p.37) In bar 10 to 11 Here 'Joespeth' has brought together both voices from a 10th into an 8va leading them stepwise, the upper part down and the lower up. Aloys refers to this, as Battuta It is apparently wrong why? I thought it was acceptable to move from an imperfect to perfect in contrary motion. Any help on these two questions would be much appreciated. Thank you

Hi, is there any guide that describes how to imply functional harmony progressions in contrapuntal music? Most articles on counterpoint seem to be mostly concerned with which intervals are allowed and how dissonances have to be resolved but none explains properly how to combine this approach to composition with functional harmony.

Hi, it's the first time I'm posting here, so I hope I'm doing this in the right place. I've taken it onto myself to learn counterpoint from a book that seems thorough enough, Counterpoint in Composition by Salzer and Schachter, but I've been stuck on the first chapter for some time and can't seem to make a decision about how to move on. My question is this: should I master the first species, two voice exercises to make them even, and sounding complete, or be satisfied for now with understanding the rules and move on. I think my difficulty also is in that the authors advise against "mechanical" writing, but I don't get how 8 notes against 8 notes can be anything but mechanical. I'm thinking if I go on then I might understand and hear the whole process better and will be able to write the beginner exercises in a way that's as good as the examples. I wish to go to school for composition soon, but right now I'm limited to studying by myself with the help of only the internet, so there's no point for you to tell me to get a teacher. Thanks!

I was recently told on one of my peices that I need to look more into voicing. While I have a vague idea of what this means, I was wondering if someone could give me an overview of what it is (really) and how I can get better at it. Feel free to get nerdy with it, I have Google ;) PS The song is called Silver Linings and can be found with the other band stuff. It would be great if you could listen to it; I need the views and the comments hahaha

Hey Peeps, I've brought a copy of "The Study of Counterpoint" and I'm slightly stuck on like, the third/fourth page... I fully understand everything so far up to what is Page 31 of my copy, here Joseph has been given the task of writing the counterpoint underneath a Cantus Firmus and I've got completely lost as to how he's doing it. It doesn't help that I can't actually read some of the numbers aswell because the print blotches. This is the example given: What I'm lost how you decide what the interval is... Let's take the fourth bar for example because 1 and 2 are Joseph's mess ups (bless him) and I can't actually read the Interval he's written in number 3 because it's either a 3, 5, 6, or 8. So, in the lower stave of bar 4, there's an F and then there's a D in the higher stave. So basing the interval from the Counterpoint Stave then we have a Major Sixth. But then, if you base the interval from the Cantus Firmus we have a Minor Third. This is where I get confused. What way should I be relating it to? It kinda depends on whether the interval is classed as Perfect or Imperfect. I understand that you're meant to go on the mode of the Cantus Firmus, does that mean I should just be treating the Cantus Firmus as the one that I start counting the interval from? Then I just get confused because he's written "10" instead of simplifying to a Third and stuff like that. Basically I just want to confirm I'm looking at this in the right way? Any help would be awesome! Cheers! Daryl :)

How can I learn to hear counterpoint... without the aid of the piano? Whereas I have no trouble hearing and singing single lines, I'm not quite sure how I should approach hearing counterpoint. When writing counterpoint, it seems to me that it's absolutely essential to be able to hear both voices simultaneously, rather than just choose appropriate notes for the counterpoint part mechanically, following the rules. Let's say I've got this example: Is it really possible to hear two voices in your head, rather than hearing them as separate voices? How can I practice this? Is the underlying harmony as important as the separate voices? By that I mean: what's more important? To hear them as Cantus Firmus: DFE etc and Counterpoint AAG etc or as P5 M3 m3? Thank you in advance.

Hi all, Here there are a number of good books on counterpoint. http://cantati.com/resources/index.html